Town of Hebron, IN, to restrict public protest

[jonboy]

I have confronted a westboro baptist church member because I hate their message but they should have a right to say it. We no longer have our 1st amendment rights look at what they did to the kids protesting wall street

 

[Rhoadmar]

we must not infringe on the tights of others

That would be painful

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

we must not infringe on the tights of others

We must allow others to put fringe on their tights if they so wish...

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

When have the Westboro folks ever been violent in their protests? Have they burned any cars, physically attacked anybody, broken any windows... anything?

I can't remember a single instance of them ever being violent.

Not saying they haven't... but I sure don't remember it happening.

I can tell you first hand they are incredibly disruptive and rude - NOT peaceful. I was with the Patriot Guard this past summer when SPC Trevor A. Pinnick was laid to rest at Memorial Park Cemetery in Vincennes. These wonderful 1A supporters blasted air horns - the kind you can fit in your pocket - right beside the grave as the minister was summing up. In what universe is multiple air horns "speech" and/or "peaceful"?

The first amendment does not protect screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theatre because it's not "speech", has no real purpose except to disrupt and cause pain and injury. In my opinion blasting air horns at the grave side is not protected 1A speech for the exact same reasons.

 

[jedi]

Let's stop hiding behind the government. Are these cretins headed to a funeral near you to protest? Let's put a face to the opposition. Perhaps it would be a fantastic opportunity for an open-carry event. Get creative, use our brains, and exercise the same liberty that these folks use for evil.

I believe in the right of free speech but this is an exception just like you can't yell FIRE in a crowded place . If it infringes on the tights of others it's wrong

You have NO GOD GIVEN RIGHT to a funeral. That is not something our founding father's placed on the BoR or constitution.

You do have a RIGHT to speak freely.

There lies the difference.

Can you imagine a world where everybody went around shouting "FIRE" all the time, completely unchecked by government bureaucrats?

Mass pandemonium. Dogs and cats living together. The end of the world as we know it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

 

[LP1]

Ok, so one group([STRIKE]the protesters [/STRIKE]people who want to be able to defend themselves) rights trump the rights of [STRIKE]the family expressing grief for their dead loved ones [/STRIKE]people who are uncomfortable around guns. Not.

See edits above. Does it sound good now? I don't think so.

Personally, I find the idea of protesting at a funeral to be repugnant. However, infringing on the right of free speech is even more repugnant.

 

[rambone]

In my opinion blasting air horns at the grave side is not protected 1A speech for the exact same reasons.

If the town made a simple noise ordinance, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[level.eleven]

If the town made a simple noise ordinance, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

That isn't a violation of speech in your world? Where does the word decibel appear in the constitution? Statist pigs can tell you how loud you can be but can't ask you to move away from the entrance of a building?

 

[jbombelli]

I can tell you first hand they are incredibly disruptive and rude - NOT peaceful. I was with the Patriot Guard this past summer when SPC Trevor A. Pinnick was laid to rest at Memorial Park Cemetery in Vincennes. These wonderful 1A supporters blasted air horns - the kind you can fit in your pocket - right beside the grave as the minister was summing up. In what universe is multiple air horns "speech" and/or "peaceful"?

The first amendment does not protect screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theatre because it's not "speech", has no real purpose except to disrupt and cause pain and injury. In my opinion blasting air horns at the grave side is not protected 1A speech for the exact same reasons.

Disruptive and rude is not violent. Blasting their air horns is not violent.

Rude, yes. Insensitive, yes. Pieces of ****? Yes.

But get back to me when they actually do something violent, and I'll say they aren't peaceful.

I didn't have relatives die in wars so we could tell people we don't like to STFU and go away, that they don't deserve the protections of the Bill of Rights.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

If the town made a simple noise ordinance, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm sure there is one, just as I'm sure to the letter of the law these folks were breaking other ordinances. Tell it to the family and friends that were grieving and sobbing. They were not arrested. They were not approached by anyone. Everyone simply walked away.

 

[fireblade]

So what come's first your right to protest at a funeral or your right for privacy at a funeral for a family member.....I understand 1 amendment right freedom of speech and it should not be confined . But I have had many funerals of friend and family military member protested by Westboro Baptist Church’s. Most of the time they are blocked by others to protect the family saying goodbye and laying to rest a family member. Only once did i see and hear the hate and evil comments from them.

　

The real question why protest a funeral in the first place ......so by some of the logic i seen posted .. in the name of my right to protest i can i can evade your right to privacy ....think about it ...

Does the goverment have the same power on your privacy ..... just because one can does not mean one should...... am all for the freedom to protest not be confined ..but protesting hate at funeral is were i see the right to privacy should out wiegh the right to protest....

 

[Ericpwp]

Justice Samuel Alito, the lone dissenter, said Snyder wanted only to "bury his son in peace". Instead, Alito said, the protesters "brutally attacked" Matthew Snyder to attract public attention. "Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," he said.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Disruptive and rude is not violent. Blasting their air horns is not violent.

Rude, yes. Insensitive, yes. Pieces of ****? Yes.

But get back to me when they actually do something violent, and I'll say they aren't peaceful.

I didn't have relatives die in wars so we could tell people we don't like to STFU and go away, that they don't deserve the protections of the Bill of Rights.

Violent and Peaceful are at opposite ends of the spectrum. One can be disruptive and NOT peaceful without being violent.

Any situation - funeral or not - soldier or not - where a "protestor" is blasting air horns is not "speech". The 1A is protecting someone's right to have a differing opinion and saying so in public. Blasting multiple air horns in someone's ear is not articulating an opinion or expressing a contrary argument. By your measure does 2A protect your right to wave a loaded gun in someone's face?

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Justice Samuel Alito, the lone dissenter, said Snyder wanted only to "bury his son in peace". Instead, Alito said, the protesters "brutally attacked" Matthew Snyder to attract public attention. "Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," he said.

I agree with Justice Samuel Alito in this case.

Check it out - just exercised my 1A right...in a public forum...with words.

 

[Dauvis]

You have NO GOD GIVEN RIGHT to a funeral. That is not something our founding father's placed on the BoR or constitution.

You do have a RIGHT to speak freely.

There lies the difference.

I invite you to read Federalist Paper #84 (if memory serves me). The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were not intended to be an enumeration of what rights we do or do not have.

 

[jbombelli]

Violent and Peaceful are at opposite ends of the spectrum. One can be disruptive and NOT peaceful without being violent.

Any situation - funeral or not - soldier or not - where a "protestor" is blasting air horns is not "speech". The 1A is protecting someone's right to have a differing opinion and saying so in public. Blasting multiple air horns in someone's ear is not articulating an opinion or expressing a contrary argument. By your measure does 2A protect your right to wave a loaded gun in someone's face?

You don't get to decide what's appropriate speech for a particular protest that you're not a part of.

So you'd have no problem if they stood directly across the street from the funeral with their horrible signs, and waived them at everyone as they drove in and out, but didn't have their air horns? That's what they USED to do until they got legislated further away. THEN they got out their air horns. Airhorns is what you get when you legislate someone like that further away.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

You don't get to decide what's appropriate speech for a particular protest that you're not a part of.

So you'd have no problem if they stood directly across the street from the funeral with their horrible signs, and waived them at everyone as they drove in and out, but didn't have their air horns? That's what they USED to do until they got legislated further away. THEN they got out their air horns. Airhorns is what you get when you legislate someone like that further away.

Didn't try to, just tried to define "speech" as "not an airhorn".

I would have a personal problem with anyone protesting a funeral, but if they wanted to stand there respectfully and hold signs then that's their 1A right. You see, signs have words n stuff.

AND personally, if it were my family, once grandma and her wheelchair were in the car and headed home, I would be back to discuss the matter with someone that rude. 1A protects you from the government, it does not protect you from getting your face rearranged for being rude.

 

[Ericpwp]

Well, if they called your dead son a F@g soldier, those might be construed as "Fighting words", which are not protected by the 1A.

 

[jbombelli]

Didn't try to, just tried to define "speech" as "not an airhorn".

I would have a personal problem with anyone protesting a funeral, but if they wanted to stand there respectfully and hold signs then that's their 1A right. You see, signs have words n stuff.

AND personally, if it were my family, once grandma and her wheelchair were in the car and headed home, I would be back to discuss the matter with someone that rude. 1A protects you from the government, it does not protect you from getting your face rearranged for being rude.

They did exactly that, with their signs (you know, with words 'n stuff) until lots of people who didn't want to deal with free speech legislated them (unconstitutionally in my opinion) on down the road. What's the point of free speech if the people you're directing it at can't hear you or see it? None. So they grabbed their air horns.

And I'd vote to acquit you if I was on your jury.

 

[rambone]

I'm sure there is one, just as I'm sure to the letter of the law these folks were breaking other ordinances. Tell it to the family and friends that were grieving and sobbing. They were not arrested. They were not approached by anyone. Everyone simply walked away.

If the last ordinances didn't help, will another one be the answer?

Blasting multiple air horns in someone's ear is not articulating an opinion or expressing a contrary argument.

I'm agreeing with you. But the ordinance in this thread makes it illegal to stand around quietly on a public sidewalk with a controversial shirt on, 299 feet from the funeral.