Carry with one in the chamber

[JetGirl]

You hope.

Yeah. Honestly, it does happen from time to time.

 

[cbhausen]

It's simple: Keep it on you at all times in a good holster and with one in the pipe. If it's not under your direct control lock it up. I've been through lots of holsters and for EDC I'm currently using the Safariland ALS system (www.holsters.com). They are pricey and take awhile to get but are definitely worth it. I have one for each of my Glocks in both standard and light-bearing versions where applicable. The retention is great and the release is intuitive. I also like how they come with both belt loops and paddles.

EDIT: Yes, I shoot left-handed (which might be why I have to wait all the time to get these holsters )

 

[bensaccount]

Odds of you needing your firearm: 1 in 1000000. Odds of you not having enough time to cock it if you do need it: 1 in 1000000. Don't keep a chambered firearm in reach of your kid whats wrong with you.

 

[cosermann]

... Constantly loading and unloading as you go from the house to outside and back again is a recipe for disaster. ...

This is a GREAT point that I don't think has yet been raised in this thread.

The risk of a discharge goes up any time a firearm is loaded/unloaded (or unnecessarily fiddled with) simply due to the mechanical and manipulative issues that can arise. It also tends to contribute to people treating firearms TWO different ways (i.e. loaded and unloaded, it's ok there isn't one in the chamber . . . bang), instead of ONE way. (i.e. always loaded).

Proponents of empty chambers should consider this risk as part of the equation.

 

[Excalibur]

Guns I own that I don't plan to use are always unloaded unless I take them to the range. Guns in my house that are always loaded is my 870, my 1911 and my carry gun even when I put my carry gun in the safe. The only time those guys are unloaded is when I clean them

 

[LarryC]

Whatever floats your boat. We all do personal risk assessments (whether we realize it or not) and do things in such a way that we're comfortable given our own personal risk tolerance.

I will simply say that experience shows that carrying a handgun that is ready to use is not "bull." A recent example from a first-hand post on INGO was shared as well as a video. Those are just a couple of samples. Many people are dead because of such an approach.

Under the stress of a life/death situation the manipulation of so-called active safeties and slides are more prone to be fumbled. This is correlated a bit with level of training and level of stress. All one has to do is participate in or watch some practical handgun competition. Fumbling of such things is not rare - and this is only under the stress of competition, not a life/death struggle.

Most handgun confrontations happen from within arms reach to 8' or so. Consequently, there simply isn't much time to react. 700 miliseconds (even if accurate) is almost 1 whole second. One second is 2/3 the time you might have as determined by the Tueller Drill (and that's 21').

There are things one can do to buy time. Awareness and avoidance are good. One can have additional layers of security at home; alarm systems, dogs, etc. All these things are good too.

Safety is always the primary concern of course. That's what the 4 rules are for. Follow them and there are no accidents, yet one's firearm is ready to do its job when called upon. Note that none of the rules say anything about an empty chamber. Carrying without a round chambered does not make one's gun worthless, but it does significantly diminish it's value in many situations.

It's important to have a realistic conception of how such situations actually occur from statistics, history, and experience. TV, movies, fantasy, and imagination are poor sources of information.

Just trying to get folks to think about things in a way they may not have before.

I would have to agree with you on some points - first is that I very much doubt that I would ever be in a situation where I am 8' from a BG, without me being aware that I am in an area where this may occur. IE - not in my home, possible walking in an area where gang activity is known, or violence has occurred somewhat frequently. (Poor neighborhood, drug activities known, or to me unknown) In those situations I will and do chamber a round. At home as I have stated, if an armed intruder comes within 8' without any notice on my part, I probably am already unable to "draw" my weapon without being shot. So I lock my doors, and am certainly aware of any strange noises. As you have stated people do not know how they will react in stress mode. I sure believe I do - at 71, I have been in many stress related incidents, and very much believe I know how I react. If as you say, a person doesn't know, isn't he more likely to overreact and possibly shoot a innocent person in times of stress? I know I would take the time to ascertain my "target" - will he. Certainly owning, training and carrying a firearm is a good thing to do in my opinion. We just disagree on what the importance of having one immediately ready to fire without chambering a round or releasing a safety. For that matter with what you are saying - you really should have the firearm in your dominate hand at all times to really be safe! Everything is a compromise, as I said I feel the complete safety of my family and friends will always be the most important. Again I don't feel a condition 3 will matter in 99.9% of assaults. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in my humble opinion they are quite rare.

 

[Aaron1776]

Odds of you needing your firearm: 1 in 1000000. Odds of you not having enough time to cock it if you do need it: 1 in 1000000. Don't keep a chambered firearm in reach of your kid whats wrong with you.

Actually the odds of you needing a firearm are a lot, lot higher than that. Just look up crime stats and then multiply them by about a factor of 10, as 90% of criminals just run and often those attempted crimes don't get reported or tagged in stats.

I've already had a few instances in my life where I was glad my .45 was on me. Never had an instance where I was glad it wasn't chambered.

However, seriously, lock the doors, get an alarm, and get a dog so you have as advanced warning as possible. With kids in the house keep it on your hip. At that point it's impossible for the rug rat to play with it unless you routinely get passed out drunk and sleep it off infront of him with your holster where he can reach it.

If that's the case I'm calling CPS.

 

[cosermann]

Odds and stats are interesting things. First of all, bensaccount, where are you getting your 1 in a million stats? Do you have a source? They're so much different than what I've seen I just have to ask.

For example, in 2011 the U.S. homicide rate was about 4.8 / 100,000. That's 48 times higher than you suggest. And this doesn't include rape (26.8 / 100k) and other violent crimes when you also might need a firearm for defensive purposes. [1] That's MUCH higher than 1 in a million.

Home invasions are another topic we've touched on. The stats on that are a bit fuzzier, since the definition of a home invasion isn't settled, but the numbers I've seen suggest the probability of a home invasion is about the same or greater than a house fire. FWIW.

Another interesting thing about numbers like this, though, is that they assume such incidents are evenly distributed. I think most of us would say that's not true. In other words, the probability of one of these bad things happening is higher in certain neighborhoods than others, for particular people who have specific behaviors (than others), etc. A look at crimes plotted on a map shows the geographic aspect of this, and it's fairly common knowledge that factors like drug use are correlated to crime as well.

Sure, bad things can happen anywhere to anyone (and that's how I scope my own personal risk analysis), but if someone wants to factor in their personal habits, neighborhood, etc. and arrives at a lower risk, I think that's valid too. In your neighborhod and for your lifestyle, maybe the risk is more like 1 in a million. It's hard to say. It's easier to just use the raw numbers for the average risk.

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, to chamber or not to chamber? That is the question.

[1] - FBI — Table 16

.

 

[bensaccount]

Actually the odds of you needing a firearm are a lot, lot higher than that. Just look up crime stats and then multiply them by about a factor of 10, as 90% of criminals just run and often those attempted crimes don't get reported or tagged in stats.

I've already had a few instances in my life where I was glad my .45 was on me. Never had an instance where I was glad it wasn't chambered.

However, seriously, lock the doors, get an alarm, and get a dog so you have as advanced warning as possible. With kids in the house keep it on your hip. At that point it's impossible for the rug rat to play with it unless you routinely get passed out drunk and sleep it off infront of him with your holster where he can reach it.

If that's the case I'm calling CPS.

Ok well to each their own. At least you agree on never leaving a chambered weapin in reach of a kid.

 

[bensaccount]

Coaterman you do realize the majority of those murders are gang violence right? Look I have no safety and am fast and precise as a lion so I don't keep one chambered. You do what you see as fit.

 

[jaschutz79]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=posfSTQSBqU

This video is from open carry starting at 24 feet with the victim expecting an attack. Lets assume they have very minimal formal training.

As for the argument with kids in the house...lock the damn thing up when its not on you.

 

[zippy23]

I love it, this seems to be a hot topic! one thing i keep seeing from both sides is to "stick with what you do and train"-very good advice!

 

[cosermann]

Coaterman you do realize the majority of those murders are gang violence right? ...

Absolutely, hence the stats are not evenly distributed (as I pointed out), and if folks want to incorporate those other mitigating factors (ex. neighborhood, gang involvement, drug use, etc.) into their risk assessments that's valid.

I just think it's very difficult to quantify those other factors.

I love it, this seems to be a hot topic! one thing i keep seeing from both sides is to "stick with what you do and train"-very good advice!

Agreed. Doing it one way sometimes, and a different way other times can cause problems. My advice for those who sometimes have an empty chamber and sometimes don't, and this is only free advice so take it for what you paid for it - is to train to rack the slide EVERY time, even it if means dumping a round sometimes - to promote consistency.

 

[Burnsy]

If you do choose to carry with one chambered, AND choose to unchamber when you get home for safety purposes, make sure to unchamber gently. If you use the same round over and over again the bullet will slowly seat deeper into the case and increase pressure if the round is ever used..., i.e. not a safe situation. There have been many posts on this subject on this forum. Either rotate the rounds from top to bottom in the mag, or better yet do more shooting. While I'm on the subject of safety, never pistol-unchamber a round and catch it with your hand. It looks cool, but if the ejector is just slightly out of position (i.e. bent) it could ignite the primer and go off in your hand. And yes, it has happened. I appreciated your post. The more kids know about this stuff the better, I think. Good luck.

1. Don't chamber or unchamber a round "gently". The thing is designed to function at the speed and force it does for a reason.
2. Set back is caused by cambering a round, not unchambering. The act of contact with the ramp on the way in is what does it. There is no avoiding it by "gently" cambering the round, it still experiences the same contact with the ramp and force with the ramp but you also run the risk of it not locking up completely if you don't let the slide fly forward.

 

[SideArmed]

Odds of you needing your firearm: 1 in 1000000. Odds of you not having enough time to cock it if you do need it: 1 in 1000000. Don't keep a chambered firearm in reach of your kid whats wrong with you.

Here's a better idea: Gun Proof The Child....Don't Child Proof The Gun.

I'll reiterate.

First, good on you for starting gun safety at a young age. Second, don't stop now, keep driving it home to her, get her involved (as you have already). Safety should be taught and demonstrated at every opportunity.

My son just turned 7 the other day, when he was 4, almost five, I started him in on the Eddie the Eagle cartoons. We watched those for about 6 months, until he had it memorized. We also started going over the four rules of gun safety, and to my surprise he started treating his toy guns that way. We even set up a "shooting range" for him in the front hall of the house where he could safely shoot his suction cup crossbow from a shooting mat.

After about 6-7 months, once I felt he was ready, we got out grandpa's old Marlin Model 60, the first real gun he had seen or knew of in the house. I very plainly explained to him that it wasn't a toy, and the history of the rifle and how one day it would be his. I also told him he could see it whenever he wanted, BUT he had to ask first. Then we went through all the parts of the rifle, and I made him recite the 4 rules before he was allowed to touch it.

That was over two years ago, and still if he wants to look at any of the guns, he asks and then immediately starts reciting the 4 rules. There is no mystery about guns with him, he knows what they are and what to do if he finds or sees one and there is not a responsible adult around. That got put to the test one day. I had taken my pistol off and laid it on the counter with my hat and wallet (I was home alone waiting on my son to get back from his moms). When he got home he was walking around in the kitchen and I was over by my bedroom door, I looked over at him and he was standing (barely tall enough to see over the counter) staring at my pistol, which would have been just out of his reach. For a split second I though he was going to go for it, but he stopped, Yelled out "Hey dad, can we look at your pistol?"
I told him of course, and asked him the four rules and what the procedure was for clearing the gun. Then once cleared, we field stripped it and put it back together.

 

[Benged]

Here is my simple take on this issue - If you carry your gun in a certain fashion, then ALWAYS carry it that way. Make sure you practice till your hands hurt so you will have the muscle memory to perform in a life threatening situation.

I have no children in the home and I always carry my G17 with 1 in chamber in my Serpa Holster.

Common sense isn't so common anymore.

 

[D.T.O.M.]

I always keep one chambered !

 

[WebHobbit]

If you are choosing to carry a gun without a round chambered then you simply aint ready to carry a gun. You are either afraid or distrustful of yourself, your choice of gun or BOTH. Either way you should rethink your decision to carry. Work on the trust/fear issues. Or it could be carrying a gun just isn't for you. It's not a choice to be taken lightly and it really isn't for EVERYONE. Better to find out now and own up to it then find out when it's too late and make a bad situation even worse.

Also I really think all the silly gun handling depicted on TV/Movies where FBI/CIA/Beat Cops are walking around with chamber empty and then dramatically racking the slide Just in Time has warped some folk's sensibilities.

 

[cbhausen]

If you are choosing to carry a gun without a round chambered then you simply aint ready to carry a gun. You are either afraid or distrustful of yourself, your choice of gun or BOTH. Either way you should rethink your decision to carry. Work on the trust/fear issues. Or it could be carrying a gun just isn't for you. It's not a choice to be taken lightly and it really isn't for EVERYONE. Better to find out now and own up to it then find out when it's too late and make a bad situation even worse.

Also I really think all the silly gun handling depicted on TV/Movies where FBI/CIA/Beat Cops are walking around with chamber empty and then dramatically racking the slide Just in Time has warped some folk's sensibilities.

^^^THIS^^^

Provocative, maybe... But these are life and death decisions we make. However you choose to carry, I strongly agree with others who preach consistency. Carry the same way all the time and train that way or you may fail when SHTF. The odds are in favor of the attacker so we defenders need all the advantages we can get.

 

[Tanfodude]

Hmm.....some passionate opinions here and to the point of being judgemental.