My first open carry encounter

[johnnythefist]

Hey. So this is my first post here on this website.

I had my first encounter today while OCing. But not with the police. Since I received my LTCH, I carry most of the time. Normally concealed, but as it has been getting warmer and my difficult to conceal, I have been OCing.

This evening as I was making my normal mile walk thru the neighborhood with my dog ( I live in apartment) as i walk past my friend's place. She is a single 20s something women who has recently got a divorce and has been having problems with her ex. There was a man standing at her door, pounding and yelling. I cannot hear what she is yelling back but he responds "Go ahead and call the police" and contines to pound. At this point I am standing about 20 yards behind him and say "Sir, I think you should leave before I call the police". He turns around yells "Mind your own f***** business" and proceeds to walk towards me. He advances about 5 feet and looks like he is about to rush me when I see him glance at my weapon. He then stops and says "You should really mind your own business", then turns around walks to his car and leaves.

I consider this a positive encounter and the fact that I was OC might have prevented any violence. If anybody has any input on how I could have handled that in a better manner, I would appreciate a comment.

 

[MeechisGotAGun]

 

[Compatriot G]

All I can say is be very careful about interjecting yourself into a situation like this. This is essentially a domestic dispute. I realize the lady is your friend, but the old adage about there being three sides to every story is true. The ex-husband does seem like he could be prone to violence, though.

 

[Excalibur]

Good for you man. I see a guy like that coming towards me, I'd start slowly backing up and then ready to pull my shirt up or walk down that hall with my shirt pulled up around my gun if I know walking pass this guy is going to be trouble. Then again, I would have stayed far enough away and have my hand on my cellphone with 911 already pressed and needed a touch of a button to call.

Friend or not, if you live down the hall and hear banging on door and yelling, you should call the cops

 

[johnnythefist]

Good for you man. I see a guy like that coming towards me, I'd start slowly backing up and then ready to pull my shirt up or walk down that hall with my shirt pulled up around my gun if I know walking pass this guy is going to be trouble. Then again, I would have stayed far enough away and have my hand on my cellphone with 911 already pressed and needed a touch of a button to call.

Friend or not, if you live down the hall and hear banging on door and yelling, you should call the cops

All outdoor entrances. I was in the grass waiting for my dog to poop. I will say that before I said anything I put my dog's leash on the ground and had the cell phone open in my hand. 911 wasn't keyed in though. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Sylvain]

Would you do the same thing if you didn't carry a gun on you?
I dont think you should ever do something armed that you wouldn't do unarmed.

 

[canav844]

Welcome to INGO

If anybody has any input on how I could have handled that in a better manner, I would appreciate a comment.

Since you asked, if it were me and he was disturbing the peace and/or making threats I would have kept my mouth shut and called the police.

Everyone did go their own separate ways and nobody got hurt so you do get a ; what you did obviously worked today.

Now from the keyboard here it's easy to armchair quarterback; but you're looking at a few things, by you initiating the contact if he had gotten into an altercation with you and/or the use of your firearm was necessary to prevent serious bodily injury and/or death, it may come down to a DA charging you with provocation, and removing a self defense claim.

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
(d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and (B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other person's intent to stop hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.8; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.1; P.L.59-2002, SEC.1; P.L.189-2006, SEC.1.

Not making the claim that it would stick, but hang around here long enough and you'll see news stories that prove that politics can make the decision of whether or not to go to court more than the accounts of the events; and defending yourself in court is an expensive proposition, when you can take steps to avoid having to in the first place, and in my book unless he's breached the door, this isn't a judged by 12 than carried by 6 and it's not like he's come after you to start with, he could've cared less you where even there until you intervened.

Also consider this man is upset with you, in his eyes you're some stranger interfering in his life, and he knows you have a gun and where you live, there's nothing to stop him from going out to the car and calling the cops claiming you threatened him; or coming back and attempting to steal your firearm later (on an assumption that statistically whether it applies to you or not, many gun owners own more than one). It's something to consider because NRA stickers have gotten people arrested with false claims made in road rage incidents. You also don't know if he'll be back tomorrow armed and having a beef with you and her. It's a messy divorce, when things get like this emotions run so high, hence why what is most likely an otherwise reasonable man standing out in the hallway pounding on the door, the cops themselves tend to try to avoid going into the situations without backup whenever possible (it's still essentially a DV situation even if it's not what the legal terms, due to relationship and living arrangements, come to it's still that volatile)

I'm all for looking out for your neighbors and those around you; but this is one of those times where getting the cops involved is going to be more likely to help things in the long run, and if he's causing as many issues as you make it sound; it's probably not going to be long before they can document things well enough for her to get a restraining order and keep him away. If he comes around causing problems again, you should be able to hear the yelling before you see him, pick up the cell, call 911 tell them what's going on give them the location. If you know his car and can get the plates before you enter the building, you can give them that information and they have a chance at knowing who they are dealing with before they arrive.

On the flip side of things, he may now think she's got friends that have guns and decide to stay away or not bother her at home and perhaps OC will truly deter him; but we can't get inside his head to know that.

And I'll reiterate: Everyone did go their own separate ways and nobody got hurt so you do get a ; what you did obviously worked today. When everyone goes home unhurt that's the goal.

So there the from some guy one the internet.

And again, welcome to INGO

 

[johnnythefist]

Would you do the same thing if you didn't carry a gun on you?
I dont think you should ever do something armed that you wouldn't do unarmed.

I would and have before

 

[johnnythefist]

canav844

Thanks for the input. To tell the truth, i never even thought about the gun on my hip until he looked at it. At no time was i afraid for myself and not because I was carrying.

Although the situation had a good ending this time, i can see how it could have gotten out of control. You are right. Shoulda just stood back and called the police.

 

[24Carat]

Would you do the same thing if you didn't carry a gun on you?
I dont think you should ever do something armed that you wouldn't do unarmed.

So if one is small of stature, aged or handicapped and you carry a firearm to level the playing field in your travels through life you are therefore impotent to act? Interesting concept! For Nancy Boys.

 

[Sylvain]

I would and have before

Well you might want to stop doing that, even if you think it's the right thing.
I said "I dont think you should ever do something armed that you wouldn't do unarmed." but it's also true that sometimes you shouldn't do something armed that you would do unarmed.

In some cases you could get in trouble for spepping in like that with a gun on your hip.
You are not the police.Now if someone is in great danger sure you should step it but in domestic violences even if you think you are doing the right thing it's possible that both people turn against you and tell the police that you threatened them with your gun.
That happened before.

 

[bluegrassrules]

To quote my dad, "Open carry just makes things clear from the start"...seems that may have just happed with you.
cheers

 

[Sylvain]

To quote my dad, "Open carry just makes things clear from the start"...seems that may have just happed with you.
cheers

Welcome to

 

[griffin]

I'd start slowly backing up and then ready to pull my shirt up

Why are you pulling your shirt up? I don't think he cares about your love handles.

 

[griffin]

Normally in this type of situation I would just call the police. You're young. You need to learn that people get the friends/bf/gf/spouses/exes they deserve. They choose them. Not you.

If she was a close, personal friend then I would have intervened more. But then if that were true you would have known him, too.

 

[looney2ns]

Most cell phones there is no need to key in 911. Simply press the 9 button and continue to hold it down until it dials, about 4 seconds.

 

[Sylvain]

Why are you pulling your shirt up? I don't think he cares about your love handles.

 

[TJSaltdog]

I would of went into my apartment and put my gun up and then went back outside and asked the guy to leave before I call the cops, and if you dont leave my wife tells me I have to whoop your ass. No kidding here people. My wife and I were driving down a side road here in Lafayette and there was a man pulled over on the side and he was beating the hell out of his wife next to his car. My wife told me to help her, next thing I know im beating this dudes head off his own car. The cops show up and dont even bother stopping me. One thing I hate is a woman beater. No im not the baddest man on the planet,but some times you got to stick up for the weaker ones.

 

[Dead Duck]

Would you do the same thing if you didn't carry a gun on you?
I dont think you should ever do something armed that you wouldn't do unarmed.

This is the KEY thought right here for anyone carrying a weapon of anykind, in anyway, at anytime, anywhere. (Only 2nd to WWJDWC - "What Would Jesus Do While Carrying")

Lets not forget the "Drunk Moron" thread last year of- not only should one get armed if not already, but once armed, would one have done it differently unarmed? Sounds confusing and that's why the thread went so long. (Plus a few Trolls) btw - using the ignore feature cuts threads down some.

I've been in countless scenarios where I've thought about my actions and what I would do if I wasn't carrying. (Part of Situation Awareness) Let’s face it, everyone will choose a different path because we are all different. (girls are softer)

Some will ignore the situation altogether and turn their ipod up louder, others will intervene regardless of the red flags because it's the right thing to do and it involves a cute chick. (Usually the difference between guys pulling "KP" vs. "Combat")

Obviously your outcome will be swayed by past experiences, training, personal capabilities and hopefully some common sense to get you through safely.(although very different between us all) Sadly, some use a gun as an instant confidence builder and go around like a super hero. (This is choosing poorly cause spandex rides up.)

Carrying can alter how you go about your planning while you’re in a situation. This is just being a responsible gun owner. The initial choice to intervene in the first place is going to be the argument here with some. (Unfortunately) And probably his choice to OC. (and it worked)

The OP chose to defuse the situation with the "Distraction Technique". Very well played and when done properly, will usually have positive results.
Thinking ahead is difficult when on the fly and confrontations are sometimes unavoidable as we all know. (Dweebs - you just keep turning your music up.)

You guys here already know the end game so now it's too easy to do the "I would have done this" spin to it. I play chess too, for that would've, should've, could've factor. So go ahead and reflect back and forward and sideways with how you'd do it different but just remember -

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

 

[JetGirl]

OC/CC whatever. I hope you didn't leave your dog's crap laying in somebody else's lawn.