Bag Limit vs Possession limit

[Cornbread]

I didn't know this or I just didn't give it any thought. I love to squirrel hunt. I would reather hunt squirrel then eat. So I have a lot of them in my frezzer. But while talking to a friend while eating in at a Bob Evens a Co heard me say how many I had. He got up and came over to us and stated that I could be fined because I was over the Possession limit. The Possession limit is 2x the daily bag limit. He said all someone had to do was call dnr and tell them about me and they could get a warrent and come into my house to search my frezzer. He then said this was free advice and left. I think this is just a stupid rule. We eat the squirrels and don't wast them. But I guess a rule is a rule. Sorry just needed to vent.

 

[samot]

He said all someone had to do was call dnr and tell them about me and they could get a warrent and come into my house to search my frezzer.

Ya, you sound like a criminal!!!! I dont know if that is true or not. Seems a little extreem to me

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I *believe that possession limit only refers to what you have on you/vehicle/camp while you're out hunting.

What you have in your freezer can't (and shouldn't) be included in that count.

I mean, who is to say that the frozen game didn't come from last season? Or represent multiple hunters?

*I'm not even close to being a lawyer. But I do have a step-cousin who's in his first semester of law school.

-J-

 

[CountryBoy19]

I *believe that possession limit only refers to what you have on you/vehicle/camp while you're out hunting.

What you have in your freezer can't (and shouldn't) be included in that count.

I mean, who is to say that the frozen game didn't come from last season? Or represent multiple hunters?

*I'm not even close to being a lawyer. But I do have a step-cousin who's in his first semester of law school.

-J-

+1 This is how I understood it. Possession limit is how many unprocessed animals you can possess. If they're in your freezer unprocessed, you may be in violation, but if they've been butchered you should be good to go.

You should call DNR (from a payphone if you're paranoid) and ask for clarification. Then post back here for all to know.

 

[whitetail2]

Below is a link to another Indiana message board, asking this same question. The poster, Buster, is an Indiana Conservation Officer.
HUNTING INDIANA - Did possession law change?

 

[Cornbread]

Below is a link to another Indiana message board, asking this same question. The poster, Buster, is an Indiana Conservation Officer.
HUNTING INDIANA - Did possession law change?

Thanks great link. Answered that question.

 

[langb29]

That's a good explanation of the possession law and it makes sense, but wow, that CO was way off!! How does that happen?

 

[Clay]

Reminds me of my dad telling duck hunting stories....... where ever up north (Michigan) he would go duck hunting, the local guys up there would have one group shooting, and one group processing so they kept that 'bag limit' in check... or something like that.

 

[AGarbers]

think there's a little gray area that should be cleared up.

From reading the other thread it would seem processed game shouldn't count. However, from reading books by retired Minnesota DNR officer Tom Chapin, he arrested many folks that had been fishing in Minnesota and had over their possession limit fish that had already been processed and frozen. (Yes, I know Minnesota is a different state so the laws may be different.)


As far as DNR officers knowing or not knowing all the laws, they are like any other profession and some are going to be better at some things than others. No one can know everything about everything in their field. Years ago as a licensed electrician, I knew other electricians that knew very little about the National Electric Code. I knew state and city inspectors that knew almost nothing about the NEC and yet they were enforcing it. They had the job title but lacked in knowledge of their chosen profession. (I am not saying that I know everything about my profession. Far from it and every day I hope my current employer doesn’t figure that out…)

Last winter I argued with an Indiana State biologist who was telling folks in my college class it was perfectly legal to raise crops such as wheat, sunflowers, and corn, mow them down, and hunt over them. I told him and the class I personally knew Indiana Conservation Officers that would arrest them for doing that very thing.

The blurb on page five of the 2009-2010 Hunting and Trapping Guide doesn't differentiate processed game from unprocessed. But, the guide isn't all the laws of the land so it may be spelled out more clearly elsewhere. If it were me, I would seek out someone well versed in state law in the DNR and ask for the definition of possession and how it relates to game being processed.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Last winter I argued with an Indiana State biologist who was telling folks in my college class it was perfectly legal to raise crops such as wheat, sunflowers, and corn, mow them down, and hunt over them. I told him and the class I personally knew Indiana Conservation Officers that would arrest them for doing that very thing.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see the code on this...

I think that the biologist is right.

I mean, what happens to flood/wind/hail/frost/smut ruined crops? They get mown down / tilled / plowed.

Hunting "over" them, near them, in them, on them, or around them is perfectly legal, is it not?

As far as a CO arresting someone for this; we also hear stories of LEO detaining folks for open carry...which is also perfectly legal here in Indiana.

As we all know, LEO aren't the be all / know all of the law.

-J-

 

[Militarypol21]

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-hg_generalinfo.pdf

It is illegal to possess, ship, carry or
transport more than two times the daily bag
limit of a wild animal after the beginning
of the second day of the season established
to take that animal. It is illegal to take more
than the daily bag limit of a wild animal in a​

calendar day.

​

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title14/ar22/ch39.html

Searches of effects; entry onto property
Sec. 3. (a) As used in this section, "public or private property" does not include dwellings.
(b) The director and conservation officers may:
(1) search a boat, a conveyance, a vehicle, an automobile, a fish box, a fish basket, a game bag, a game coat, or other receptacle in which game may be carried; and
(2) enter into or upon private or public property for the purposes of subdivision (1) or for the purpose of patrolling or investigating;
if the director or conservation officer has good reason to believe that the director or conservation officer will secure evidence of a violation of this article or a law for the propagation or protection of fish, frogs, mussels, game, furbearing mammals, or birds.

 

[pftraining_in]

Personally, I'd LOVE to see the code on this...

I think that the biologist is right.

I mean, what happens to flood/wind/hail/frost/smut ruined crops? They get mown down / tilled / plowed.

Hunting "over" them, near them, in them, on them, or around them is perfectly legal, is it not?
-J-

Federal Regulation on Baiting

Waterfowl Hunting and Baiting

Indiana
312 IAC 9-1-4 "Bait" defined
Authority: IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22
Sec. 4. "Bait" means to place, expose, deposit, distribute, or scatter grain, salt, or other feed to lure, attract, or entice a wild
animal to an area where a person may take the wild animal. (Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-1-4; filed May 12, 1997,
10:00 a.m.: 20 IR 2698; readopted filed Jul 28, 2003, 12:00 p.m.: 27 IR 286; readopted filed Nov 24, 2008, 11:08 a.m.: 20081210-
IR-312080672RFA)

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Federal Regulation on Baiting

Waterfowl Hunting and Baiting

Indiana
312 IAC 9-1-4 "Bait" defined
Authority: IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22
Sec. 4. "Bait" means to place, expose, deposit, distribute, or scatter grain, salt, or other feed to lure, attract, or entice a wild
animal to an area where a person may take the wild animal. (Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-1-4; filed May 12, 1997,
10:00 a.m.: 20 IR 2698; readopted filed Jul 28, 2003, 12:00 p.m.: 27 IR 286; readopted filed Nov 24, 2008, 11:08 a.m.: 20081210-
IR-312080672RFA)

Thank you, MK18.

It would seem, then, that it's the motivation, rather than the act itself, which makes mowing down grain crops potentially illegal?

I wonder how they'd be able to prove the motivation?

-J-

 

[CountryBoy19]

Thank you, MK18.

It would seem, then, that it's the motivation, rather than the act itself, which makes mowing down grain crops potentially illegal?

I wonder how they'd be able to prove the motivation?

-J-

I don't think they could. Unless they have some sort of testimony stating that you did it so the deer would come etc.

How would that apply to hay fields? What if you strategically place your hay fields near deer hunting areas so you can also enjoy good deer hunting? Is that baiting? Food plots? That is just providing a nourishing food source throughout the year. Just because they're left in the fall doesn't mean they were placed with the specific purpose of attracting deer in the fall.

This is a good question... where does "baiting" start and where does it stop?

 

[Cpt Caveman]

I believe baiting starts when you transport something( corn or salt) into an area to influence deer travel so as to get them within range in order to kill 'em. Now if you have a food plot going thats NOT considered baiting. Its feeding the deer. You can put out a salt/mineral lick on your place and still hunt the area if you put the stuff in a plastic barrel bottom and put a little roof over it. That way the deer still get the minerals , there's no run over( baited soil) when it rains and you can hunt that area in the fall.
A C.O. told me that little tidbit.

 

[pftraining_in]

All traces of feed or bait must be removed 10 days prior to hunting the area. Leaching of salts and minerals into the ground can cause large amounts of soil to be removed.

When it comes to food plots as in sunflowers or mylow, if a common agricultural practice for the crop does not include mowing them down instead of harvesting with equipment or by hand you are in violation. You may hunt over these crops or plants after they are harvested by hand or mechanical means or if left in the field and not disturbed. Hunting over agricultural waste, grain spills or trash piles from a combine, is also legal as long as you do not move the pile or disturb it in any way.

 

[AGarbers]

I think MK18 hit the nail on the head.

I have talked with ICOs on this very topic and they said basically that very thing. You can hunt from an apple tree with apples all around but you can't bring in and scatter apples under the tree. (Some guys did that plus cut the apples up...) You can hunt over a crop field, harvested or not, but you can't mow the crops down for the purpose of hunting over it. The specific case I was told about was a "club" that raised sunflowers then mowed them down to bring in the doves and quail. They all got cited and could not hunt over that field for the rest of the season.

As for the OP's question... I think I would be chowing down on squirrel until my freezer was a little lighter. I'm thinking squirrel dumplings, squirrel pie, rack of squirrel, squirrel Diane... After all, he confessed in a public forum... No one knows who is lurking out there... Did I hear something about a INGO squirrel roast?

 

[finity]

Here is the DNR rule that sets the possession limit:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]

312 IAC 9-2-8 Possession restrictions where bag limit established​

[/FONT][/FONT]

Authority: IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22​

Sec. 8. (a) A person must not possess, ship, carry, or transport more than two (2) times the daily bag limit of a wild animal after the beginning of the second day of the season established to take that wild animal.

(b) A person must not take more than the daily bag limit of a wild animal in a calendar day.
(c) A person must maintain possession of any wild animal taken, and for which a bag limit is established, while the person is either:
(1) hunting or fishing; or
(2) returning, after hunting or fishing, to the person's automobile or other principal means of transportation.
(d) A person must not transport a wild animal for another person, which is in excess of the bag limit for the person providing transportation, unless the wild animal is tagged by either of the following:
(1) A tag issued by the department and properly completed, if the wild animal is one for which a department tag is required.
(2) If a department tag is not required, a tag signed by the person taking the animal which includes the following information:
(A) The person's address.
(B) The total number and species of wild animals taken.
(C) The date the wild animal was taken.​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]

(Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-2-8; filed May 12, 1997, 10:00 a.m.: 20 IR 2701; readopted filed Jul 28, 2003, 12:00​

p.m.: 27 IR 286; readopted filed Nov 24, 2008, 11:08 a.m.: 20081210-IR-312080672RFA)

Possession is defined as:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]

312 IAC 9-1-12 "Possession" defined​

Authority: IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22
Sec. 12. "Possession" means to have direct physical control or to knowingly have the power and the intention to exercise
dominion or control.​

​

​

​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic](Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-1-12; filed May 12, 1997, 10:00 a.m.: 20 IR 2699; readopted filed​

Jul 28, 2003, 12:00 p.m.: 27 IR 286; readopted filed Nov 24, 2008, 11:08 a.m.: 20081210-IR-312080672RFA)

In this case there is no exception for processed game as there is in other parts ogf the IAC (deer hides, squirrel tails, etc.). I think the CO in the OP is the one who is correct.

OTOH, It's not like a CO is going to search your house...unless of course he has PC to do so (like him hearing you bragging about how full your freezer is while sitting in Cracker Barrel ). Knowing the law is always a good thing. At least then you know to keep quiet if you are bending/breaking it.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Personally, I'd LOVE to see the code on this...

This is a good question... where does "baiting" start and where does it stop?

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]

312 IAC 9-3-2 General requirements and licenses for hunting deer

[/FONT]

[/FONT]

Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22; IC 35-47-2
Sec. 2. (a) This section and sections 3 through 10 of this rule govern the:
(1) hunting;
(2) transportation; and
(3) disposal;
of deer.
(b) Species of deer other than white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) are exempted from the following:
(1) This section.
(2) Sections 3 through 9 of this rule.​

An individual who claims the exemption provided under this subsection must prove the deer is other than a white-tailed deer.
.
.
.

(s) An individual must not hunt deer with the use or aid of:
(1) bait, which includes:
(A) a food that is transported and placed for consumption, including, but not limited to, piles of corn and apples placed in the field;
(B) a prepared solid or liquid that is manufactured and intended for consumption by livestock or wild deer, including, but not limited to, commercial baits and food supplements;
(C) salt; or
(D) mineral supplements;
(2) snares;
(3) dogs; or
(4) other domesticated animals.
The use of manufactured scents and lures or similar chemical or natural attractants is not prohibited.
(t) An area is considered baited for ten (10) days after the removal of the bait or the baited soil. Hunting an area, such as an orchard, which may be attractive to deer as the result of normal agricultural activity, is not prohibited.​

If you haven't transported a natural food specifically for consumption then I don't think it could be considerd baiting. Food plots shouldn't be a problem.​

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[Cornbread]

Thanks I now know when to keep my trap closed

 

[Eprobertson1]

Thanks I now know when to keep my trap closed

Better that you find out this way than to have a CO banging on your door. Most of the CO's are cool about these kind of issues. If you are a continued problem for them, they pretty much go by the book.