Range Report and Request for Help with a malfunctioning Taurus 709 Slim

[Bapak2ja]

Friends and Taurii Lovers,

I posted this on another thread, but I want a larger audience to consider this and offer suggestions. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

I recently bought the 709 Slim from mjrducky on . I took it to the range yesterday for the first time. It handled well. I really like the small size, as it fits my hands very well. It was as accurate as it could have been given that I am still learning the art. I consistently hit the torso, but it pulled down left more than I like to admit.

mjrducky assured me he had no trouble with the weapon before I bought it from him. I understood him to mean that he personally had no FTF or FTE issues with it. To be fair, he may not have SAID that, but he did allow me to believe it. This leads me to think there is a problem with either my handling of the weapon, my ammo or, most likely, the gun. I am posting here not to bash a fellow er; I add this info only to give background to my problem and to ask for help on fixing it.

Range report. All firing was done at H&H's FWA range @7-10 yds (no authoritative statement has been given about the distance to the first red line marker). The 709 Slim is 9mm Luger. I have 7+1 mags but only loaded to seven (or used the remaining of the box or ammo type in the second mag).

First set of Mags 10 rounds
Ammo: Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX.
Three (3) failure to fire
one (1) FTE.
Failure to fire was due to the FTE. I tested the automatic reset of the trigger before examining the problem. Wanted to see if it worked as advertised.

Second set of Mags 8 rounds
Ammo: Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection 124gr GDHP
one (1) FTE.

Third set of mags 12 rounds
Ammo: Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection 124gr GDHP (finished the box)
one (1) FTE.

Fourth set of mags 14 rounds
Ammo: Lellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ
one (1) FTE.

Fifth set of mags 14 rounds
Ammo: Lellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ
one (1) FTE

Sixth set of mags 20 rounds, reloaded to finish box
Ammo: Lellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ
Four (4) FTE

Seventh set of mags. 28 rounds, reloaded both mags and fired on same target
Ammo: Winchester 115gr FMJ
Nine (9) FTE.

Eighth set of mags. SWITCHED TO GLOCK 26 - 22 rounds
Ammo: Winchester 115gr FMJ
Performed flawlessly. Every round fired as scheduled, and my accuracy improved noticeably!

Ninth set of mags, again with G26
Ammo: Hormady Critical Defense 115gr FTX
Performed flawlessly.

I will not post photos of the targets.

So, I have a problem. The 709 failed on every mag with every type of ammo. I paid attention to the limp wrist issue after the first mags. Grip was solid. The problem is that the empty casing remains fully or partially in the chamber, no stove pipes. Some of the FTEs could only be cleared by physically rapping the weapon against my free hand with weapon pointed up to increase the gravitational pull on the empty to get it to fall out of the chamber.

So, what do I do next?
Option 1: Call the seller for further info?
Option 2: Grin and bear it?
Option 3: Throw it in the Maumee and never buy anything but a Glock again?
Option 4: Contact a local gunsmith, e.g. H & H or Gander Mountain?
Option 5: Contact the manufacturer?

Of course, this is what I do after screaming at the 709, instructing it in two languages to straighten up and act proper, and recovering from the chagrin of having my wife say, indirectly and politely but with the same sweet smile and intent, "I told you so."

 

[Joe Williams]

First thing I would do is have someone else shoot it. I've read these are prone to limp wristing. I see where you've considered that, but a good hard grip isn't necessarily the cure. If the gun fails in the same manner with different shooters, you may have an issue with the gun, and can either take it to a gunsmith, or call Taurus and take advantage of their lifetime warranty. If it doesn't, you may need to either get a gun that doesn't have this issue for you, or refine your technique a bit.

 

[SSGSAD]

I would invite the previous owner out to the range, saying, I just love this gun, come shoot with me.....

 

[kingnereli]

Looks like you got a lemon. What to do next is definitely up to you. I doubt you will get anything of value out of the seller as he probably sold it because of the issues you mentioned. Definitely don't carry the thing. Stick with the glock for now. ( It seems you shoot it better anyway.) You may also want to call Taurus and see if they can help you for cheap. It couldn't hurt. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Bapak2ja]

First thing I would do is have someone else shoot it. I've read these are prone to limp wristing. I see where you've considered that, but a good hard grip isn't necessarily the cure. If the gun fails in the same manner with different shooters, you may have an issue with the gun, and can either take it to a gunsmith, or call Taurus and take advantage of their lifetime warranty. If it doesn't, you may need to either get a gun that doesn't have this issue for you, or refine your technique a bit.

Thanks for the advice. At the very least, I will have my sons test fire it before I do anything drastic. My oldest son has military training and may be able to see something I am doing wrong in holding it.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I would invite the previous owner out to the range, saying, I just love this gun, come shoot with me.....

I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. I like to believe that INGOers will be honest with their fellow members. Maybe I am naive . . .

 

[CoyoteCreekGuns]

I hate to say it but it is a Taurus. Now let me say that I have never been a "hater" of any firearms, but there hasn't been one model of Taurus firearms that I have had in stock that I haven't had to send at least one back to the distributors due to defects. From the PT24/7 9mm to the M990 .22 Revolvers whose cylinder locks up and everything in-between.

I know that they do have some models that tend to be flawless and I actually do carry at PT1911 as EDC but from what I can tell this is a rarity for this manufacturer.

I will continue to order from Taurus if my customers request it, but it's not without and forewarning.

Good Luck and let us know how Taurus deals with this particular issue.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Looks like you got a lemon. What to do next is definitely up to you. I doubt you will get anything of value out of the seller as he probably sold it because of the issues you mentioned. Definitely don't carry the thing. Stick with the glock for now. ( It seems you shoot it better anyway.) You may also want to call Taurus and see if they can help you for cheap. It couldn't hurt. Good luck and keep us updated.

Thanks. I will have my sons check it out at the range again to be sure it is not must me, and then it seems contacting Taurus may be my best course of action.

 

[x2bax]

Did you clean and lube it well before you shot? Mine does not like dirt, but I've only had Failure to Feed issues when the gun or mags get dirtty, never any FTE's. I would give Taurus a call and see if they have a fix. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, as it really is a great conceal wepon.

 

[Ricnzak]

Mr. Williams posted a good thread called Taurus Revolver Dissassembly A Pictorial Guide . It appears to be from a Taurus forum. You may go to that site and scan for people having the same problem. Just a thought.

 

[wtfd661]

Have someone else shoot it. I'm not familiar with Taurus' but you might want to make sure the extractor is clean, no crude behind the claw that could be helping to foul it. If still having problem contact Taurus, speak with them. I'm sure they will have you send it back and more than likely it will come back to you operating perfect.

If all else fails, sell it with full disclosure and buy another Glock.

Please keep us posted.

 

[Joe Williams]

Mr. Williams posted a good thread called Taurus Revolver Dissassembly A Pictorial Guide . It appears to be from a Taurus forum. You may go to that site and scan for people having the same problem. Just a thought.

Taurus Armed.net - Index

I've just discovered the site myself, and it does appear to be an excellent source of info for all things Taurus.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I hate to say it but it is a Taurus. Now let me say that I have never been a "hater" of any firearms, but there hasn't been one model of Taurus firearms that I have had in stock that I haven't had to send at least one back to the distributors due to defects. From the PT24/7 9mm to the M990 .22 Revolvers whose cylinder locks up and everything in-between.

I know that they do have some models that tend to be flawless and I actually do carry at PT1911 as EDC but from what I can tell this is a rarity for this manufacturer.

I will continue to order from Taurus if my customers request it, but it's not without and forewarning.

Good Luck and let us know how Taurus deals with this particular issue.

I can't say I was not warned. I read the reviews, and heard reports that Taurus has a troubled record. My son also has a Taurus 1911 and it works flawlessly. I like the size and feel of the 709, and I really want this one to work. Based on feedback thus far, it seems like it will be a matter to resolve with Taurus. I will keep INGO informed. Thanks for your input!

 

[Bapak2ja]

Taurus Armed.net - Index

I've just discovered the site myself, and it does appear to be an excellent source of info for all things Taurus.

THANKS!! I will follow up on it.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Have someone else shoot it. I'm not familiar with Taurus' but you might want to make sure the extractor is clean, no crude behind the claw that could be helping to foul it. If still having problem contact Taurus, speak with them. I'm sure they will have you send it back and more than likely it will come back to you operating perfect.

If all else fails, sell it with full disclosure and buy another Glock.

Please keep us posted.

I did not clean the weapon before firing it, assuming the previous owner, a fellow er of good standing, had cleaned it. When I cleaned it after my range visit, I found the slide was wet. I assume it was lubricating oil, and I cleaned it thoroughly. Is it possible that too much oil on the slide and extractor would cause the FTE? Either way, I do need to make another trip to the range for further testing. Guess that is the silver lining of this SNAFU! I have a good reason to go back to the range with my posse (sons).

 

[Joe Williams]

I did not clean the weapon before firing it, assuming the previous owner, a fellow er of good standing, had cleaned it. When I cleaned it after my range visit, I found the slide was wet. I assume it was lubricating oil, and I cleaned it thoroughly. Is it possible that too much oil on the slide and extractor would cause the FTE? Either way, I do need to make another trip to the range for further testing. Guess that is the silver lining of this SNAFU! I have a good reason to go back to the range with my posse (sons).

I've been told that too much oil in the chamber can make extraction difficult, wouldn't know. I've never wanted to experiment with any of my guns to find out. Now, the first thing I'd do is clean the gun, THEN have someone else try shooting it if you continue having difficulties.

One thing I've noticed going through that Taurus site: A lot of "issues" with Taurus' are resolved after cleaning the gun.

If this does turn out to be a gun issue, don't let it put you off of Taurus'. None of the ones I've owned so far have caused us trouble, and I've always felt that I've gotten more than I paid for. People like to rag on Taurus, while ignoring things like widespread recalls from companies like Ruger, S&W, Walther, "product upgrades" that should be recalls from Glock. Come to think of it, the only major handgun company that I can think of off the top of my head that hasn't had issues lately is Springfield Armory. Lots of folks bash Taurus (always with the disclaimer that they aren't doing so) while giving the other companies a pass. Many of them have never actually owned a Taurus, I suspect a fair portion of them are mad they've paid significantly more for guns that aren't significantly better. The only two factory new guns I've owned that didn't work right were a S&W 1076 and a Glock 23.

All that said, I really think Taurus would be better served to streamline their product line, and quit coming out with new models every darn year. New models are basically "beta" guns.

 

[nate77]

I see someone has already recommended www.taurusarmed.net that is a good place to start.

Also Taurus offers a lifetime warranty even if you aren't the first owner. Just give them a call, and they'll take care of you, also paying shipping both ways.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I see someone has already recommended www.taurusarmed.net that is a good place to start.

Also Taurus offers a lifetime warranty even if you aren't the first owner. Just give them a call, and they'll take care of you, also paying shipping both ways.

Thanks for the the comment about the shipping! I had missed that in my warranty research!

 

[Bapak2ja]

I've been told that too much oil in the chamber can make extraction difficult, wouldn't know. I've never wanted to experiment with any of my guns to find out. Now, the first thing I'd do is clean the gun, THEN have someone else try shooting it if you continue having difficulties.

One thing I've noticed going through that Taurus site: A lot of "issues" with Taurus' are resolved after cleaning the gun.

If this does turn out to be a gun issue, don't let it put you off of Taurus'. None of the ones I've owned so far have caused us trouble, and I've always felt that I've gotten more than I paid for. People like to rag on Taurus, while ignoring things like widespread recalls from companies like Ruger, S&W, Walther, "product upgrades" that should be recalls from Glock. Come to think of it, the only major handgun company that I can think of off the top of my head that hasn't had issues lately is Springfield Armory. Lots of folks bash Taurus (always with the disclaimer that they aren't doing so) while giving the other companies a pass. Many of them have never actually owned a Taurus, I suspect a fair portion of them are mad they've paid significantly more for guns that aren't significantly better. The only two factory new guns I've owned that didn't work right were a S&W 1076 and a Glock 23.

All that said, I really think Taurus would be better served to streamline their product line, and quit coming out with new models every darn year. New models are basically "beta" guns.

I have cleaned it, and as soon as the boys come home we will test this puppy again! I like the 709. It fits my hand, shoots well (I need to improve - not the gun), and conceals very well. Just gotta get this thing to perform every time!

 

[swmp9jrm]

Bapak2ja:

I've got over a thousand rounds of many types of FMJ and JHP through my 709. It IS a good gun. Let's leave out the 'All Taurus guns are crap' threads - it is just not true. The main failure mode for the 709 seems to be the extractor. If you go through the posts on TaurusArmed, you'll see that it is not a rare event based on the posts. But based on the number of 709s sold, it's probably not a major design defect - more of a part QC issue. Winchester White Box seems to be the most problematic ammo - more folks have trouble with it than any other. The Hornady Critical Defense has, based on posts in several forums, a spotty record of non-fires in sub-compact semis.

I have had no trouble with WWB, but I've had two non-fires with CD. Both rounds fired on the second pull of the trigger. I would not condemn the 709 based on the Critical Defense. The fact that you seemed to have had trouble with 1 round of several types of ammo might indicate that it could also be a magazine problem. There are some posts that suggest you might need to polish up the follower and the body of the magazine if you have this problem, particularly if it's always the last round that is the problem.

The other major factor in keeping a 709 running seems to be cleaning. The lower seems to collect all kinds of crap and you really need to pick and poke around in there to get it squeaky clean. I've noticed that the trigger action gets 'gravelly' after about a hundred rounds. Unless your gun was THOROUGHLY cleaned when it was new or after you got it, it is highly likely that functionality could be affected by the white gunk that Taurus puts in their guns when they are manufactured.

If you have cleaned the gun, had someone else shoot it, checked the magazines, and still have the problems, send it back to Taurus. From the posts in various forums, MOST of the extractor problems are fixed when folks get their guns back.