Pics and thoughts on some impact weapons

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  • mercop

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    There are two major reasons for the large interest of palm sized impact weapons these days, one is the prohibition of carrying edged weapons and firearms these days in many places, and the second is the growing understanding that it is a logical part of a layered defense to have something in your hand when the attack happens that will allow you to damage your attacker and then transition to another weapon or get away.

    These tools provide for two basic needs, one is causing a concentration of force on a small surface area, which increases trauma. Two, is that they provide a fist load with or without weight that can add impact or just protection to your hand during impact. One that is usually missing in either the capability or training with the particular tools is the ability to manipulate the balance of your attacker and being able to use these items for blood chokes. As a rule impact weapons seek bone, edged weapons seek flesh. Primary targets for these impact tools are the head, face, neck, chest, elbows, and hands. Depending on the situation you may be able to strike the knees and feet. Once you have the back, you may also be able to access the spine but this should be avoided unless it is a deadly force situation, and you better be able to articulate why you struck them in the spine instead of running away.

    We have a logical process for the selection of tools- Selection, Carry, Deployment, and Use. While writing the article, I am going to be critical from several points. First of all, I believe all citizens should be able to carry what ever they want to protect them from evil. As a retired police officer, I have to say that I seldom ran across good guys and more knucklehead vs knucklehead. This is what develops an officer’s beliefs over times. So, I will also be looking at these tools from a law enforcement point of view. The last point of view I will use is the one that I believe eludes too many people, that is the one of a trainer who knows what he can do has a base line for what his “average” student can do. Even more important though is the perspective of how altercations happen and the mindset and skills needed to use a contact distance weapon during a real life attack.

    Much to the chagrin of some other martial types, I maintain the belief based on my training, experience, and research that people are much more likely to swing (hammer fist), than jab (straight punch) in the majority of circumstances. Because of this, even impact weapons that provide for more than one type of strike should have the hammer fist as the primary.

    I have grouped the following tools into classes-


    impactweapons.jpg



    Top row- Traditional wooden (Yawara Bo, palm stick, Kubaton, whatever) and an aluminum version made by Phil Smith of Phil Smith Knives. These are oldies but goodies, most people are used to seeing these with keys on them. I am not a fan of this, but instead prefer it to be hung on the waistband with a piece of parachute cord. The primary strike with Kubatons is a hammer fist and it allows for manipulation and chokes because of its protrusions on both sides of your hand. These items may get a second look from LE and security. I prefer the ones made by Alpha Innovations since they are made in the US, and are easily replaceable if confiscated, lost, or stolen.

    Second row- Comtech Stinger, this is a devastating tool if you are in a position to throw a straight punch. The two things I don’t like is that it does not provide for a hammer fist strike, and that it does not resemble anything that has a legitimate non SD purpose. Next are two examples of Executive Ice Scrapers. The first is metal and the second one plastic produced by Choate Machine & Tool. I got the metal one just because I thought it was neat. The plastic one is actually a great little ice scraper and busts up ice real well. I would never carry one on my person but every vehicle I have has one in the door pocket. If you happen to have one in your hand when attacked, they would make some devastating gashes in flesh. This would also turn this into an edged weapon. The two-finger knuck between the ice scrapers is exactly the type of thing that will set bells off to any cop or security guard with a drop of common sense.

    Third row- Travel Wrench and Saf T Wrench by Kelly Worden. Both of these are excellent tools and Kelly had a course based on them. Besides being used as weapons, they actually can be used as a wrench. They both provide for the hammer fist strike and the Saf T Wrench provides for concentrated jabs as well. One thing I like about Kelly’s stuff is that it has information on it. To me this shows professional responsibility. Most people will have never seen these before and they might attract attention. Next are my favorites, Koppos sticks. A Koppo stick is basically a Kubaton with a piece of rope that you loop your two middle fingers through. This means that you can handle kids, groceries, or whatever without dropping it. When someone grabs us, we are hardwired to open up our hands to grab them back. This can lead to dropped tools or a lack of being able to use your strong hand for control. With the Koppo this is not an issue. I also have no problem drawing and firing most pistols with the Koppo in my hand. These are my favorite control tools. An inexpensive bombproof version is available from Alpha Innovations.

    Fourth row-This row is reserved for what Jones Bros Knives calls Party Favors. By now you can see which ones provide for hammer fists, straight punches, and control options. Also pictured in the PRK (Prick) Police Rescue Knife designed by me and made by Barry Jones. Here is the steel version next to the Garolite version. Garolite is what Barry makes most of the toys out of. Most of this stuff, except for the stylus, will attract unwanted attention. The items on the bottom are Barry’s Cuff Links. Ti disks connected with a piece of paracord. You wear these as a bracelet. I hope I don’t have to explain what they are used for.

    Final thoughts, most people will be well served with any cylindrical item about 5-6 inches long and between ¼ and ½ in diameter. Hmm, that sounds like just about “any” pen or small flashlight. This should be your primary tool clipped to your shirt, and then you can sprinkle other things around based on your needs, training, and environment.
     

    Turtle

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    I have a fist and a lot of power behind them. And I have been in many fights as I will not show fear or backdown. The streets are like a jungle and I am just another animal. For those of you that have never had to defend your self I may sound like a brute. But I grew up in the inner city. I should have been dead a couple times but my abillity to act instantly without thought has saved me. My advice is be mindfull of your suroundings, remember that everything can be a weapon, and fear is your biggest enemy. When something happens dont think just act! If you stop to think it my cost you your life. Just like animals our survival instincts take over and it will alow you to take action in ways you never knew you are capable of.

    Those lil toys are useless. If I was hit by one of those I would just get really mad and you would be hurt even worse. I had 8 guys beat me in the street 2 had brass knuckles. I was knocked down and kicked several times I was bloody and brused But I kept getting up and fighting back I finally couldnt take anymore and made it onto someones porch yelling for them to call the cops but they never did. I passed out but eventually woke up and managed to walk home. I still had all my money and my leather coat wich they had been trying to take. I went through this over about 600$.

    Ive been hit with a car, a 2x4, a big rock, brass knuckles, a metal gear shifter and a couple other things I never seen but know they hurt like hell and ticked me off bad.

    When I was a teen and played base ball I had the nick name (BABE) like Babe Ruth I was a fat kid that could hit a ball over the fence almost every time I got ahold of it. Well my reputation got around and the pitchers started hitting me with the ball every time I was on deck. I got hit with so many baseballs I earned a new nick name... They called me the "Iron Man"

    Enjoy your toys and a false sense of security. They wont stop a guy from the streets.
     

    Jeremiah

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    Enjoy your toys and a false sense of security. They wont stop a guy from the streets.


    Sir this post by you is very angry, most of what you ever say is useful, pointed and balanced, unless be pure internet shenanigans. I think you should consider yourself lucky that those you have fought against have had little training, I have seen these little toys used very effectivley and am laerning to use some of them myself, I have faith in the techniques, Hoever not in my own ability at this moment, as thes toys have caused me quite a bit of pain, I am no little man, and can put power into my hits, ( recently rocked and old Massey Ferguson 175 , tractor not to be confused with an overgrown lawn mower, with a roll cage and dump bucket on it) but I fully understand that a miss from a .44mag is still a miss, the energy you put into a punch if properly redirected can cause you great pain, and suttle light slaps, can open doors and allow a trained person acess to many usefull pressure points and nerves. With devastaing results.

    My instructor new Angel Cabales, and Angel when they met was about 110 pounds and 5'8" would wipe the floor with nearly anyone that would step up to him, as he relied on skill and patience above strength and speed, ( something like age an treachery beats youth and brashness). But one of the Quotes I hear, quoted from angel Cabales, the most often is give your opponet enough time, and they will put their Ba**s in your hand.
     

    Indy_Guy_77

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    Step one: Aquire a tool as above.

    Step two: LEARN TO USE IT.

    Otherwise, it's akin to a paperweight.

    -J-
     

    Turtle

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    Listen if you think these will do the job then you prolly believe 1 shot in the chest is going to stop a bad-guy. Maybe even think it will make em fall back 5ft too. Hey real life doesn't work that way. You better keep shooting till hes dead because 1 shot is almost never enough unless you hit the head. And if your some where where guns and knives arnt allowed I'm only guessing they would have security to enforce such rules so your about as safe as your going to get. I'm not angry at all I'm just expressing my opinion based on my experience. I in a great mood and playing Mario cart on my old DS waiting in my DSi my wife bought me to come in the mail.
     

    jamstutz

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    I believe what you say, turtle--I have a guy like you on my staff at the jail that we can never use as a training partner in defensive tactics because his pain tolerance is so high. He can withstand any pain compliance technique used up to (and including on one occasion) breaking bones. He, and you, are part of a very small group.

    The "toys" to which you refer are not magic, they do not make the user into something they are not, but they are useful for many situations where lethal force is not a legitimate option and where the use of a few pressure point techniques is much more discreet than a punch in the face. Pocket sticks and other force multipliers do not replace empty hand techniques either, but they do increase the effectiveness of many of them. All in all they are just another tool in the toolbox and have a valid purpose.
     

    printcraft

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    Some guys in my aikido class that have been doing it for years
    have deadened the nerves in a lot of their pressure points to the
    point of pressure point techniques having little effect on them
    unless you really crank on them. New guys are a different story however
    and usually fold like a house of card with the slightest pressure,



    Were you a ninja turtle, perhaps?


    It's the shell........... :laugh:


    /threadjack
    Hey Turtle, can you play the regular DS games on the DSi?
    Also is the slot still there for the GB games?
    My youngest was asking about it for Christmas and I have
    not looked into it yet.
     

    mercop

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    Pain tolerance has **** to do with central nervous systems disruption and bending knees and elbows backwards and sideways.
     

    esrice

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    Were you a ninja turtle, perhaps?

    Thanks for the laugh! :D

    Turtle- slow your roll man. No one here is attacking you dude. :draw:

    In another thread, several of us asked mercop to post some pictures of what he himself claimed to be "toys that he's collected over the years".

    It's always interesting to see what's out there. I learned several things I didn't know before this post.

    Thanks for sharing George. :yesway:
     

    Prometheus

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    Some guys in my aikido class that have been doing it for years
    have deadened the nerves in a lot of their pressure points to the
    point of pressure point techniques having little effect on them
    unless you really crank on them. New guys are a different story however
    and usually fold like a house of card with the slightest pressure,

    + to that, some guys in my Chintokan class were the same way. If you didn't hit it dead on, there was no response.

    Towards the end I was developing a bit of resistance for non precise pressure as well.

    These tools allow for more pressure exerted and a bit less precision. As Mercop said, pain tolerance means jack when it comes to CNS.

    Hit the nerve properly and the body responds accordingly. Cause and effect. It doesn't how tough you are or how many beatings you can take.

    Thanks for the run down Mercop!

    I prefer to fight w/o one because I'm not into compliance/submission techniques. If I go hand to hand I'm going for quick incapacitation and strikes that would be out of line for LEO's and definitely never used in the dojo :cool:
     

    public servant

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    Testicles have a very low pain tolerance level. ;)

    Always fight to win...everything is fair.

    I won't go toe to toe with a guy that's say 25 to 30 years old. We'll do it on the ground to level the playing field a bit. And if I can help it...it will be over quickly. Whatever it takes.
     
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    Turtle

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    Hey I never said I didnt like the toys...lol I like all weapons! except nunchucks. Last time I played with the i ended up hitting myself in the balls. Bad toy.
     

    LEaSH

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    There was a kid growing up that had all the toys we couldn't afford. His parents let him have throwing stars, nunchucks, daggers, and even a sword that must have cost a couple hundred bucks back in the 80's.

    We'd experiment and build fancy devices in our garage and sell them to the rich kid.

    I remember as a kid, my buddy was learning how to open a cheap 'butterfly' knife and nearly needed stitches accross 4 knuckles.

    I can't remember the proper name of those knives - still see them at flea markets and things for $2.
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Testicles have a very low pain tolerance level. ;)

    Always fight to win...everything is fair.

    I won't go toe to toe with a guy that's say 25 to 30 years old. We'll do it on the ground to level the playing field a bit. And if I can help it...it will be over quickly. Whatever it takes.

    I'd rather let the other guy do his fighting from the ground. I can swing my bat harder standing up.

    I never got my black belt in baseball bat but my little league uniform is in my parents attic.
     
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