"No Firearms Allowed"

[LawDog76]

I contacted the Marion County and the Allen County Prosecutor's Office to asking about a person carrying a firearm into a bank when it is posted "No Firearms Allowed". I seem to get mixed answers no matter who I ask so I figured, lets ask the ones that will be trying to convict us. I sent the e-mail posted below and as soon as I hear back I'll post their replies.



I have a question about the Criminal trespass law 35-43-2.

Sec. 2. (a) A person who:
(1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;

combined with

(b) A person has been denied entry under subdivision (a)(1) of this section when the person has been denied entry by means of:
(1) personal communication, oral or written;
(2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public

Does this mean that a person that carries a firearm into a bank that has signs posted stating "No Firearms Allowed" can be charged with Criminal Trespass on the spot or does the person need to be asked to leave the bank with the firearm first?

 

[rockhopper46038]

I would read it that you must be denied entry by the owner or the owner's agent prior to attempting re-entry onto a property that has been clearly marked no entry. I'm not certain however that "no firearms allowed" signs are in fact prescribed by law. From what I understand, they carry no legal weight in Indiana.

 

[littletommy]

Unless they have a way to know that you are packin', then what's the big deal? I've been in several places that have "no gun" signs, but if they don't know I'm carrying, how are they gonna tell me to get out? I will not go armed where I legally can't, but some place that want's to hang up a sign....I CC (I always do), and ignore.

 

[LawDog76]

I would read it that you must be denied entry by the owner or the owner's agent prior to attempting re-entry onto a property that has been clearly marked no entry. I'm not certain however that "no firearms allowed" signs or in fact prescribed by law. From what I understand, they carry no legal weight in Indiana.

The person has already been notified under section b 2 - posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public.

This is where alot of people argue and have their mixed answers.

 

[LawDog76]

Unless they have a way to know that you are packin', then what's the big deal? I've been in several places that have "no gun" signs, but if they don't know I'm carrying, how are they gonna tell me to get out? I will not go armed where I legally can't, but some place that want's to hang up a sign....I CC (I always do), and ignore.

Not really a big deal it's just that this argument comes up from time to time and I thought it would be nice to know for sure what may happen.

 

[ATM]

They can try to prosecute my firearm but it can't read and has authority issues.

 

[FULLMAGAZINE]

It is our right.

No person, state, proclamation, notice or bulletin CAN derpive us of our God-given, Constitutionally guaranteed rights. I said "CAN", because they MAY, if you willingly and knowingly place yourself under subjection to the one attempting to deny you your "Civil Right." Read and heed. No "sign" is the law ........ yet. No gun recognizes laws, but only masters. Full M.

 

[jbombelli]

They're telling you they don't allow guns. They're not denying you entry. That is what the sign means to me.

If they tell you that you can't go in there, or they post a sign in the front window stating you can't go in there, then they're denying you entry and you can't go in there. That's a trespassing issue for sure, whether you're armed or not.

But "no guns" does not equal "no entry."

I think I'll ask my attorney this weekend, if I remember, and see what he has to say.

 

[LawDog76]

They're telling you they don't allow guns. They're not denying you entry. That is what the sign means to me.

If they tell you that you can't go in there, or they post a sign in the front window stating you can't go in there, then they're denying you entry and you can't go in there. That's a trespassing issue for sure, whether you're armed or not.

But "no guns" does not equal "no entry."

I think I'll ask my attorney this weekend, if I remember, and see what he has to say.

Thanks, it would be nice to hear another lawyer's point of view and not just the prosecutors.

 

[jsharmon7]

I've read on INGO many times that signs have no force of law in Indiana. I would think that posting a sign about no firearms though would mean that you are essentially not welcome in the establishment while armed with a firearm, and are therefore trespassing. As ATM pointed out though, most signs say "No firearms allowed" rather than "Persons carrying firearms are not allowed." So, after all that, I have no idea how to answer the OP's question and would love to know the answer. I think this may be one of those areas where it's a little too gray for one authority to answer definitively.

 

[infidel]

I am willing to bet that they tell you either "Just don't do it" or "you can be arrested for it". Well no **** you can be arrested for it. You can be arrested for anything. No guarantee on if the charges would stick or if you would get convicted though. Should be interesting to see what they have to say.

I OC in my band with no problems at all. If I was ever negatively confronted about my firearm, I would take every damn penny out of my accounts ON THE SPOT.

 

[PatriotPride]

It's no different than a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign. I can enter a store without a shirt. They can ask me to leave. No trespassing unless I refuse to leave.

 

[1943Izzy]

I think its always best to respect the wishes of the owners of the place .

 

[jsharmon7]

I think its always best to respect the wishes of the owners of the place .

This is probably the best advice. If they don't want them there, respect their wishes and spend your dollars elsewhere.

 

[LawDog76]

While I'm waiting for the Prosecutors to get back to me, does any of the known LEO's on here want to tell me how they interpret this? Personal since the law says "posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public" is means of denying entry, you can be cited on the spot.

 

[LawDog76]

This is probably the best advice. If they don't want them there, respect their wishes and spend your dollars elsewhere.

+1

But should/would you also apply this to a gun shop that has it posted "No Loaded Firearms Allowed"?

 

[Prometheus]

While I'm waiting for the Prosecutors to get back to me, does any of the known LEO's on here want to tell me how they interpret this? Personal since the law says "posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public" is means of denying entry, you can be cited on the spot.

"Combined with"

You need both under the statute.

In Indiana, just like Florida and a few other states, you cannot be arrested or charged with criminal trespass until you refuse to leave (or return) once verbally told or specifically given written notice (as in handing you something, not a sign).

In Florida you can't even be charged with criminal trespass out of the gate without first getting the warning (which is in effect for 6 months) if you entered without force (or climbing a fence ect. ect.).

Indiana is a bit different on the totality of such trespassing, but when it comes to signage like no guns, it means nothing.

Lawdog, I'm going to bet you get a endrun answer. I don't think they are going to come right out and tell you like I did. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[ATM]

+1

But should/would you also apply this to a gun shop that has it posted "No Loaded Firearms Allowed"?

Only if they tried to enforce it on me. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[MikePapa1]

I practiced law in Hendricks County for 16 years before coming to Tennessee, the sign would act as notice that if you are armed, you are not permitted on the property and therefore they need not give any other prior notice. I believe that most LEOs would interprete those signs in that manner.

 

[femurphy77]

I have NEVER seen a "No Firearms Allowed Sign" in a business' entryway, or anywhere else for that matter!!