First .45 SPP problem

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    I have long been using the dreaded Small Pistol Primer .45 brass, mostly since few want to buy it. I have loaded lots of combinations. Cast bullets, plated bullets, FMJ. I have used TiteGroup, WW231, AA#5 and Clays. I have used Winchester, Remington and CCI primers. Never had a problem.

    I found the combination that does not work. Plated 200 grain bullets over 4.0 Clays sparked with CCI primers. I have used this same load many times with Winchester primers. I have used CCI primers with TiteGroup, flawless and accurate.

    The CCI primers have proven softer/weaker by my test. My test is to load empty brass with primers, load into a good revolver in a dark garage. Aiming at a white painted garage door, I light them off watching the size and the intensity of the light. The CCI is a very consistent, small, soft light. The Winchester has a far larger and brighter light (and report) but there is quite a bit of variation. My most consistent benchrest style rifle load was with CCI.

    I retested the failed pistol load with Clays over Winchester primers, all was fine. Used WW231 over CCI, all went fine. I took the Brass out of the equation. Clays with CCI works fine if using Large Pistol Primers.

    The symptoms were: very inconsistent power. Some sounded and felt weak. A couple would not fully push the slide back in a known, very dependable pistol. Some sounded and performed fine. I used the same powder, out of the same keg and using the same powder measure for several hundred rounds. All the ammo was loaded the same day. Only the CCI small pistol primed loads were anything less than great. All the others were very accurate, consistent, even throwing the brass to the same place.


    It is not often that all four variables that have proven effective and reliable stack together to make a total product that is not. If someone is scratching their head with this load, it is not you, but a stack up of variables.
     

    2in1evtime

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 98.4%
    63   1   0
    Oct 30, 2011
    3,452
    113
    retired-midwest
    Found this to be of interest as others will also. I had a problem with the small .45 pistol brass and cci and fiochi small primers also. Light loads, few stove pipes using clays and also longshot. but apparently tight group is hotter or has a better ignition, i don't know. now the seller belloit sp did fine. Which i prefer anyways. Never hurts to experiment with different combinations, sometimes you have to. I tried using pb in 9mm and couldn't find a combination of anything that would work for me.
     

    mssmith44

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 21, 2011
    260
    18
    HI Leo,
    I had the same problem with clays and Federal large pistol primers. Only one so far, but the bullet made it out the barrel with a large amount of unburned powder.
    4.0 Clays and 230 grain lead.
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    4.0gr is a light load for Clays. Just thinking it could be due to 4.0 grains is not filling the case enough for consistent ignition. Clays is one of the faster burn rates, real close to titegroup on the chart.
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    Well, you all can flame away, but with the light loads you are loading, Magnum primers could be used without problems if that was all you could find.

    No flame at all. That is one combination I have not tried. I have used magnum primers with indoor bullseye level loads when primers got hard to get with no problems. I have some small pistol magnum primers, I might squeeze a few into the spp brass and give it a try. I have been a hopeless experimenter since I have been about 6.
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    Remembering now, used to have XD-45 and it would not cycle with 4.0 grains with 185 HP from Precision Delta. 4.1gr or up was fine. Even still sounds quirky because Clays is such a quick burning. It seems like titegroup would do the same thing with CCI primers.
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    To insure restack the cards in my favor, I just ordered a couple sleeves of Winchester primers, I'll stick with them in the .45. The CCI's work fine in the 9mm & .38spl.

    Clays is so bulky, it really does fill the case pretty nicely. At 1600 plus pistol loads to the pound, this jug is lasting way too long. I might have to break out the Shotshell loader to use it up.
     
    Last edited:

    IndyGlockMan

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Jul 19, 2011
    1,943
    38
    Fishers
    I'm really liking the Winchester primers since they merged the standard & magnum into 1 primer.
    Is Clays harder to ignite than other powders?
    Never used Clays but I heard it's a great powder for 45acp
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    I never had a problem with CLays in .45 acp before this. I just sat at my bench an loaded Clays again, but used the large primer brass that has been successful in the past. Since the CCI Small pistol primers light Titegroup fine, but not the Clays, I would have to guess that Clays is harder to light. I have used Clays in my target loads for a long time with GREAT results on the target. Since a Keg reloads over 14,000 .45acp rounds, and I am over 1/2 way through my 2nd keg, I feel pretty confident using it for 200 grain SWC loads.
     

    Drail

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 13, 2008
    2,542
    48
    Bloomington
    Look at the flash holes in your cases. They are punched - not drilled - and it is common (REAL common) to see a huge flap of brass hanging on the rim of the "hole" at weird angles - sometimes blocking the gas flow. I have also seen factory cases with NO flash hole at all. You gotta look at that stuff. I have always thought that reconfiguring your machinery to place a SPP into a big bore pistol case like .45 was a real stupid idea. I have read all of the supposed "reasons" it was done - and it's still a stupid idea. "Let's use a SPP instead of a LPP you guys - it can't possibly work better and it might even work poorly but it will save us a half a cent cent per round after we reconfigure the lines - YEAH, let's do that!" I used to work with engineers like that. Not any more.
     
    Last edited:

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
    4,427
    63
    Well, you all can flame away, but with the light loads you are loading, Magnum primers could be used without problems if that was all you could find.

    I'm right with you, my GF would use Mag primers at the drop of the hat and its never bothered me to shift to them either the in the time of no reg primers or just to see if it helps with a load.
    I'm kinna surprised to hear that cci primers are soft.. I don't believe I have heard that before.
    The app 45's my son the perpetual brass whore that he is, dumped a gaggle of small PP in the barrel of reg 45's two years ago and caused a bunch of problems when loading time came around. Now he understands what is kept and what goes in the scrap yard bucket.. They are a pita......
    All I ever use in 45 is Bullseye or unique.. In 4 or 8 lb'ers its like a never ending gobstopper.. LOL I'm still using a 8 lb cardboard tub of Unique....
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,804
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    The cups are plenty hard, the fire that comes out them (CCI primers) is a noticably lesser brightness than the fire that comes from a Winchester.
     
    Last edited:

    17 squirrel

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    May 15, 2013
    4,427
    63
    Neither a my dictionary or my thesaurus was much help on that word, but I think I caught the drift in context.....:):

    >>>>>>>>>>>spoke too soon, google showed it was long lasting candy, See I really can still learn!



    :yesway: :yesway:
     

    Fullmag

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Sep 4, 2011
    1,956
    74
    The cups are plenty hard, the fire that comes out them (CCI primers) is a noticably lesser brightness than the fire that comes from a Winchester.

    read an article about one of the differences between mag primers and standard primers. The main difference was the way the flame kernel was directed. Mag primers were more directed and focused down the case while standards had a wider flame kernel. Possibly that's what you're seeing a more focused flame versus wider flame kernel in the Winchester.
     
    Top Bottom