Recommended gear for a carbine class?

[esrice]

Ok you carbine class alumni, spill the beans!

What gear (beyond a serviceable carbine, or two) do you recommend taking to one's first carbine class?

What worked well for you? What didn't work so well?

What items do you WISH you would've brought?

Any major no-nos?

Please be specific, as brands, links, pics, and prices would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Hardware/Kit
A functional carbine or submachine gun chambered in 5.56x45, 5.45x39 or 7.62x39mm or standard pistol caliber weapon systems. If available, a spare weapon system is also an excellent idea. A cleaning kit and tools that are compatible with the weapon system(s) in question is also a must. Each student should have a minimum of 5 working magazines. Sometimes magazines will make it in your dump bag and sometimes they won't. If they hit the ground they can become fouled, causing weapon malfunctions and time off the line.

• Note pad, and pen/pencil
• Clothing suited to strenuous type activity as well as being seasonally appropriate
• Appropriate foot wear
• Rain gear / cold weather gear (seasonal)
• Ear pro (electronic preferred)
• Eye pro, which wraps around
• Clear lenses for night shoots
• Baseball style hat recommended
• Primary weapon sling, single point, or a good system that allows flexibility for transitions and reaction side weapon manipulations
• A rig that can carry a minimum of four (4) primary magazines on your person
• Functioning secondary weapon system, and three working magazines
• A holster and magazine pouch that will retain your equipment when moving
• Primary weapon mounted light
• Secondary weapon mounted or handheld light
• Spare bulbs and batteries for all lights
• Tools that work on your weapon
• Weapons lube
• Optics will require adjustment tools and spare batteries
• Water hydrating device
• Knee and Elbow pads (optional)
• Gloves (optional)
• An open mind.

Bring:

• A good attitude
• Serviceable 5.56x45mm Carbine. An AR type is STRONGLY recommended
• A serviceable sling. A tactical sling is best—but you must have a sling
• Three serviceable magazines
• The ability to carry two magazines on your body
• Eyepro and Earpro
• Baseball type hat
• Clothing appropriate for the season
• Kneepads and elbow pads are optional, but recommended
• 700 rounds of serviceable Ball ammunition
• Water / electrolyte replacement and food

You will be required to bring a cleaning kit and paper towers/rags. These can be ordered from Brownell’s, World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS, 1-800-741-0015 The Masen Mil Special Cleaning Kit #555-000-005 is good to go.

You will need cleaner and lube. Pat’s preference is Slip 2000 725 Cleaner/Degreaser and Slip 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube (EWL) from SLiP2000™ Gun Lubricants and Cleaners. They are non-toxic green friendly and work extremely well.

 

[shooter521]

As you might suspect, I have a thought or two on this subject, so hit me up if you have specific questions.

For now, here's a little light reading from some other guys:

Magpul Dynamics Class Primer

Load Carriage for Training Classes

 

[rhino]

Those lists are pretty good.

I would base my personal list for a given class on the instructor's recommendations, then augment it.

I would always bring at least 150% of the recommended amount of ammunition. It's better to take some home than to not have enough.

I would bring as many magazines as I could and load all of them before coming to class. Most gear lists specifiy 3-5 magazines minimum, but your life will be better during the class the less time you spend reloading your magazines. If you have enough to get through the whole class without reloading them at all or at least for any given day, you should do it.

Bring backups for all of the weapons you intend to use if possible.

Bring extra batteries for anything that uses them. Bring extra bulbs for anything that uses incandescent bulbs.

Even if you intend to be tacticool with your chest rig or vest, bring at least one belt mounted magazine carrier for speed/emergency reloads.

Bring any pads that are specified as optional. If you don't use them, so what? If you do have need of them, you'll really wish you'd considered them man-DAY-t'ry.

If it's a high round count long gun class, bring some gloves. Again, these are usually optional, but the foreends of ARs and shotgun barrels get really hot pretty quickly.

Make sure you adjust and test your gear at least briefly before you go to class, especially your sling and your mag carriers.

If you're someone who may need to rest more than the rest of the class, bring a portable seat of some kind (like a folding chair/stool, etc.).

If you have any physical issues and the instructor(s) does(do) not know you, it might be a good idea to let them know ahead of time if possible.

Something to wrap around your neck to keep brass off of your neck and out of your shirt can be very handy too. If the instructor likes to pack people closely on the line, it's almost man-DAY-t'ry unless you can poach the left end of the line during each set of drills.

 

[Cwood]

Here is a article semi related to your OP

[Organizing for a Carbine Class


By Patrick A. Rogers (December 2009)

Organizing anything is apparently difficult for most of us. Preplanning—to judge what I see in daily life—is apparently not taught in the public or private school systems. And we all suffer because of our inability to coordinate our equipment and movement. We’ll discuss organization for a carbine class here, but it may be applicable across a broader spectrum.

• Backward plan: consider the time available, what it is you’re going to do and what you need in order to do it. The time to figure all of this out is not 15 minutes before you’re scheduled to leave. Set deadlines and meet your time checks. We had a student registered for a recent class who notified us a week before that he just tried to buy ammunition and couldn’t find any. That’s flat stupidity, and I have to question why anyone that dumb has a gun in the first place. Do a map study and program your GPS; have a hard copy of a map with the address of the range as well as critical telephone numbers available in the front seat of your ride. And make a list, which needs to be broken down into several separate, but equal parts—including what you need to complete for the class—carbine(s), magazines, ammunition, load carriage, pistol, holster, magazines ammunition, spare parts and cleaning/lube items.

• Eyepro, earpro, knee and elbow pads. Hat and appropriate clothing. Hint—wear big boys trousers. Shorts are pretty stupid on the range.

• Health and welfare items: bring sunscreen, water/ electrolyte replacement, lunch and snacks. Consider bringing a folding chair so you can relax at breaks.

• Lodging: This should be accomplished as early as possible. Waiting until the last minute may mean there’s no room at the inn for you.

The checklist can keep you from embarrassing yourself, big-time. We’ve had students show up without guns, ammunition or other required items. Plan ahead, and double-check everything.

As for pre-class preparation, load your magazines before you leave for the range. If you have sufficient magazines for an entire class worth of shooting, by all means load them all. If not, try to bring at least one days worth of loaded magazines. Make sure that what you’re bringing works with everything else. We see—on a regular basis—people who show up with so much excess gear and assorted nonsense on their vests that they cannot access their pistols.

During the class have all of your kit ready to go all of the time. If you’re the last student to the line more than once, you have a latent issue and need to address this, right now. When you get a break, hydrate (hydrate regularly, not when you’re thirsty, but all of the time), urinate and if necessary, jam your magazines. And then, relax. Don’t remove your gear unless it’s absolutely necessary. Anticipate when the relays will turn, and be prepared early.

Maintain situational awareness at all times. Keep your head in the fight. Mere possession of a firearm can be a liability if you cannot efficiently and competently handle that weapon.

If you have questions about the class, what’s required or something unique to you, contact the instructor directly. He does this for a living and will have the answers you require. Don’t suffer in silence. The reason you’re attending the class is to learn. Learning requires preparation, and that reduces stress.

While there’s always stress associated with a class, understand that part of the learning process is to have fun. Enjoy yourself, and learn.

[Pat Rogers is a retired Chief Warrant Officer of Marines and a retired NYPD Sergeant. Pat is the owner of E.A.G. Tactical Inc., which provides services to various governmental organizations. He can be reached at info@eagtactical.com.]
/QUOTE]

 

[XMil]

Backup carbine, water, food, something to clean your hands with, first aid kit.

Next time, I will bring gloves, I wore a hole in my middle finger on my right hand on the bottom of the trigger guard.

A few different pairs of eye protection from clear to dark for varying light levels.

 

[rhino]

Next time, I will bring gloves, I wore a hole in my middle finger on my right hand on the bottom of the trigger guard.

Filling the hole will help (and then you won't wear a hole in your glove as fast either). You can get a "gapper" if you like to spend money, or stick a foam earplug in there and it will no longer be a source of abrasion. You could probably make a plug out of some silicone gooey stuff as well.

 

[bwframe]

Some things I've learned, not necessarily about just carbine classes:

Always take lunch, snacks and lots of power bars to share (mini Snickers in my case.) Whether lunch is specified or not, you are trying to stay within earshot of the instructor(s) at all times. Helpful info often dribbles out during breaks.

First aid stuff:
Band aids, other cut and scrape treatments, alcohols swabs, etc.
Tums, Aleve, etc.
Hand sanitizer or swabs kill germs and work as a fairly good hand or lens cleaner.

An extra bag, in the vehicle, full of "what if" stuff is a pita until you might need it:
Rain gear, umbrella, handful of $1 rain parkas, camp towel, etc.
Tools, beyond what you think you might need. IE, vice grips, hammer, hand saw.
Stapler, duct tape, superglue, para cord.
Eyepro, earpro, sling, etc. backups.
Change of clothing.

A pocket notepad and pen are very helpful as is a camera, in case you get a chance to use it.

 

[pftraining_in]

Always remember, train as you fight and fight as you train. Go to the line with the equipment that you would be wearing or using if you deploy the rifle. Training with one set of equipment, plate carriers and chest rigs, and deploying the rifle in a real life situation, BUG OUT bag or belt pouches, will cause you problems in stressful situations.

Comfort items are a different thing. I have learned to take a mixture of water, soft drinks and Gatorade/Powerade. You can only drink so much water and mixing it up helps you to consume enough liquids. Mixed nuts, Chex mix and beef jerky are all good endurance snacks. Once I started eating snacks like these during breaks, I found that I paid better attention and was not as tired after the day was over. Knee pads save your knees and help with endurance. Pre-load as many mags as possible, this allows for resting time and information gathering during breaks and saves time. Camelbaks are a must and allow you hydrate during lulls in the training with out leaving the line. And lastly bring your own camp chair, picnic tables get old real quick, especially if you need back support.

 

[esrice]

Great tips MK!

Camelbaks are a must and allow you hydrate during lulls in the training with out leaving the line.

What is everyone else's consensus on this? I see Camelbaks and hydration packs a lot in AARs, and was curious if these were really worth it.

 

[shooter521]

What is everyone else's consensus on this? I see Camelbaks and hydration packs a lot in AARs, and was curious if these were really worth it.

Not surprisingly, I agree with MK18. You want to be able to hydrate as frequently as possible; in some environments, waiting until your relay is done shooting may not cut it (Boone County in late July, anyone?).

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Filling the hole will help

Amen! How I hate that gap.

I use the Tango Down grip on all my ARs.

What is everyone else's consensus on this? I see Camelbaks and hydration packs a lot in AARs, and was curious if these were really worth it.

I have one. Have not used it here in Indiana during training. I've worn it bicycling along the Monon though.

I always pre-hydrate and drink water at breaks while everyone else is screwing with gear. (Can't be a carbine class unless you are dicking with gear--groan).

Try it and see how you like it. I'm a minimalist so the less gear I have to hump about the better.

I think for some the appeal of carbine class is playing with gear.

From personal experience I'd bring:

1. bring a cleaning rod so you can knock any squib loads out of the barrel.

2. bring an extra pair of pants. (It was July and we were all sweating, I popped down into rice paddy prone and ripped the crotch of my pants out. I had to put duct tape on my pants for the rest of the day).

3. Extra shirt when you do a one hand malf drill and run the slide on your rib cage and rip your t-shirt to pieces.

 

[esrice]

Amen! How I hate that gap.

A Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard will remedy this problem as well.

I think for some the appeal of carbine class is playing with gear.

Amen to that!

1. bring a cleaning rod so you can knock any squib loads out of the barrel.

2. bring an extra pair of pants. (It was July and we were all sweating, I popped down into rice paddy prone and ripped the crotch of my pants out. I had to put duct tape on my pants for the rest of the day).

3. Extra shirt when you do a one hand malf drill and run the slide on your rib cage and rip your t-shirt to pieces.

Excellent ideas. Experience is a fine teacher!

 

[nighthawk80]

Good information!! Keep it coming!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

A Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard will remedy this problem as well

Sure, we are blessed that there is a myriad of good gear available to us.

Not picking favorites just disclosing what I use.

 

[shooter521]

A Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard will remedy this problem as well.

As will the much less expensive MOE trigger guard. Either has the added advantage of creating a wider trigger opening... which is handy if you wear gloves as previously recommended.

 

[akaindy]

Most everyone have covered a lot of what you need, but don't forget.
A good set of boots and heavy socks that are very comfortable on the feet it makes a difference. Especially by day two. Hat with visor and glasses that have different lense colors.

I think most will agree, stay way from Eotech if possible.

Beyond my gear I usually have a box of odds and end, things like sun screen, roll of paper towels, tape (electical and ducttape), extra set of glasses, if you wear contacts take an extra pair and solution. Pair of sissors, even finger nail clippers.

And yes something to wrap you neck in, as suggested by other, I still have a nasty scar on my back that is completely shaped like a 5.56 case, and that was two years ago. It went down behind the shirt and was trapped by the plate carrier. The neck scarf went on quickly after that.

If you run a plate carrier I'd suggest trying to keep the sides clear of items, keep them on the front or the back. Putting them on the sides will make things more restictive.

If you don't have a bunch of gear yet, get a dump pouch before class it is very hand and better then letting things fall to the ground.

 

[nighthawk80]

I think most will agree, stay way from Eotech if possible.

Any reason why?

The reason I ask is because I'm saving up for a 512.

 

[Cwood]

There has been many issues with them, loss of zero, poor battery compartment design and so on. It is one the reasons why the army went aimpoint.

 

[esrice]

I still have a nasty scar on my back that is completely shaped like a 5.56 case,

As far as scars go, I'd have to think that's a pretty cool one! Thanks for your suggestions Aaron.

Any reason why?

It's been debated here and everywhere ad naseum. It's kind of a love/hate thing.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._school_me_on_eotech_red_dot_optic_sight.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...tech_and_aimpoint_observations_with_pics.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ear/49739-eotech_or_aimpoint_for_your_ar.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/accessories_and_gear/31092-aimpoint_or_eotech.html

 

[jeremy]

tag