Where was this truck going???

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • jake blue

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 9, 2013
    841
    93
    Lebanon
    A couple of insights:

    Box trucks can be tricky, even if you're legit and especially for law enforcement because it's easy to covert your intentions. Different states use different criteria for which vehicles must cross scales and inspection stations so it's always important to read those signs. I know Florida spells it out clearly and even box trucks and self-moving vans must at least enter the station even if they get bypassed.

    A friend of mine who's retired CDL holder drove a Penske box truck for a woman moving to Florida and wasn't an hour into the trip before he called me to clarify this point. Penske and Ryder trucks get a lot more attention than U-Haul trucks unless LEO get a tip about a covert U-Haul operation. Because you can lease a Penske/Ryder truck for legit commercial purposes, put a temporary sign with a DOT# on it, and be 'in business' but also private individuals can rent them for self-moves, they're more targeted.

    As for skipping weigh stations, it's tricky because again the criteria for who needs to enter is inconsistent from one state to the next. Also, they don't chase down every truck that skips but they do get a picture of it and failing to enter dings the carrier's CSA score, the federal safety scoring metric.

    There's also a little secret to how this whole thing works that's not a secret to truckers - PrePass. If you ever notice as you approach a weigh station signs that say all trucks right lane then There's a couple of radar-looking things hanging out over the lanes, that's PrePass. It's like e-tolls for trucks, if you don't need to enter it'll give a bypass signal inside the cab and/or lighted signs as the truck rolls by. So often you'll see certain trucks enter and others bypass with impunity. The 'game' is trucks who don't want to get pulled in will cut off another truck between the two sensors hoping they'll confuse the sensors and get waived by OR they'll ride the left/middle lane pacing another truck so the cameras on the roadside can't catch their truck's DOT#. However, if they still rolled over the high-speed-weigh-in-motion sensors embedded in the road, officers still get a good idea if that skipper is within legal weight or grossly overweight and will decide whether it's worth chasing them down. Plus often there's only one or two officers in the weigh station anyways so they may not have the staffing to chase down offenders.

    My perspective on this case, the combination of rolling over the HSWIM sensor and the obvious safety factor of the blown tire and leaning was more than any law enforcement officer could overlook so yeah they chased him down. Plus that Seymour scale they're deceptive, playing with the open/closed sign and actually TRYING to con trucks into unwittingly bypassing then chasing them down to write a citation. Ask me how I know!
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    7,212
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    yuck-gross.gif




    What will become of this orphaned beer? Can we adopt it?:buddies:

    Gotta wonder how one buys 400 cases of untaxed beer and under what label it is.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,843
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    A couple of insights:

    Box trucks can be tricky, even if you're legit and especially for law enforcement because it's easy to covert your intentions. Different states use different criteria for which vehicles must cross scales and inspection stations so it's always important to read those signs. I know Florida spells it out clearly and even box trucks and self-moving vans must at least enter the station even if they get bypassed.

    A friend of mine who's retired CDL holder drove a Penske box truck for a woman moving to Florida and wasn't an hour into the trip before he called me to clarify this point. Penske and Ryder trucks get a lot more attention than U-Haul trucks unless LEO get a tip about a covert U-Haul operation. Because you can lease a Penske/Ryder truck for legit commercial purposes, put a temporary sign with a DOT# on it, and be 'in business' but also private individuals can rent them for self-moves, they're more targeted.

    As for skipping weigh stations, it's tricky because again the criteria for who needs to enter is inconsistent from one state to the next. Also, they don't chase down every truck that skips but they do get a picture of it and failing to enter dings the carrier's CSA score, the federal safety scoring metric.

    There's also a little secret to how this whole thing works that's not a secret to truckers - PrePass. If you ever notice as you approach a weigh station signs that say all trucks right lane then There's a couple of radar-looking things hanging out over the lanes, that's PrePass. It's like e-tolls for trucks, if you don't need to enter it'll give a bypass signal inside the cab and/or lighted signs as the truck rolls by. So often you'll see certain trucks enter and others bypass with impunity. The 'game' is trucks who don't want to get pulled in will cut off another truck between the two sensors hoping they'll confuse the sensors and get waived by OR they'll ride the left/middle lane pacing another truck so the cameras on the roadside can't catch their truck's DOT#. However, if they still rolled over the high-speed-weigh-in-motion sensors embedded in the road, officers still get a good idea if that skipper is within legal weight or grossly overweight and will decide whether it's worth chasing them down. Plus often there's only one or two officers in the weigh station anyways so they may not have the staffing to chase down offenders.

    My perspective on this case, the combination of rolling over the HSWIM sensor and the obvious safety factor of the blown tire and leaning was more than any law enforcement officer could overlook so yeah they chased him down. Plus that Seymour scale they're deceptive, playing with the open/closed sign and actually TRYING to con trucks into unwittingly bypassing then chasing them down to write a citation. Ask me how I know!
    I did not know about the cameras and sensors, that’s interesting.
    Big brother and all that.
    I’ve blown 3 or 4. Never pulled in one. No DOT, no log, farm plates, sometimes within 150 miles sometimes not, never overweight on the interstate. Keep a dirty old farmer hat in the truck and would rather plead dumb and hope than walk right into the trap.
    Only reason for me to go very far is to haul something I’ve bought, and that’s not very often. It might be legal for me to haul something I’ve bought as a farmer but it’s all so confusing.

    Fun fact though, if it’s farm drainage machinery Indiana law exempts it from needing permits for overweight/over width.
     

    thompal

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 27, 2008
    3,545
    113
    Beech Grove
    But don't think household rental type trucks have to weigh in on those do they? I never had to when I moved up here for example back in the early 90's with a 26 foot truck and a full vehicle trailer behind it as well.

    Not unless it's changed. I've driven a 24' Ryder all over in the 80s, and never stopped at a weigh station. Didn't need a tax stamp to buy diesel, either.
     

    thompal

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 27, 2008
    3,545
    113
    Beech Grove
    To all you folks running overweight...thanks for the potholes. It's good to know we can make your life easier by paying more in taxes to fix the roads.

    A legally loaded semi has the impact of 200 cars on the road surface, illegal weight loads damage is far greater.

    Trucking is essential to our lives and industry, it's too bad your selfish and doing it wrong.

    It depends on how you want to pay for it. If a grocery or retailer needs 100Klbs of goods for you to buy, you can either pay for one truck to take it, or you can double the shipping cost and use two trucks. Just don't complain about "inflation."

    It doesn't double the damage to roads to send an overweight truck, but it will double the damage to use two trucks. Just don't complain about double the truck traffic.
     

    jake blue

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 9, 2013
    841
    93
    Lebanon
    It depends on how you want to pay for it. If a grocery or retailer needs 100Klbs of goods for you to buy, you can either pay for one truck to take it, or you can double the shipping cost and use two trucks. Just don't complain about "inflation."

    It doesn't double the damage to roads to send an overweight truck, but it will double the damage to use two trucks. Just don't complain about double the truck traffic.
    That's not really the scenario but I understand your point. FWIW, grocery and retail rarely receive an entire truckload of goods at one time anyways, it's paced out over the week based on sales and upcoming events or promotions. Plus, some brand name products are delivered by their own brand representative. For instance, that baked fresh daily bread? Delivered by the bakery's own delivery truck. Same goes for the soft drinks and the chips. Name brands actually pay for their prime real estate on the store's shelves and their delivery drivers front the product in addition to restocking. As for the bulk items from the distribution center, if an entire truckload showed up the store wouldn't have enough staff anymore to unload it and push it out in one shift. That's why if you've ever been in a 24-hour Walmart during the night shift the freight aisles are full of pallets of product because the night shift chiefly restocks. In fact, I can tell you from prior experience that Walmart supply trucks dispatch between 1800-2400 just so that stock doesn't clutter up the back receiving area for more than a few hours between arrival and overnight restocking. Except for perishables, they don't really do much with it when it arrives, that's third shift work. They also receive more than one truck a day even from the same distribution center which always seemed crazy to me but I don't know how they decided which products ship on which trucks. Each truck has a handful of stops on the route, each getting a portion of the freight according to their market size and sales volume.

    Now in terms of increasing capacity, by weight and/or volume (cube), there's a number of ways this can be done which don't negatively impact the wear and tear on the roads. The issue is spreading the weight across multiple tires/axles and there's even another thread or two about this because anyone who's been to MI/N.IN has seen those tankers with a dozen axles. The same is true for dump trucks which can weight almost as much as a semi truck even though they're 1/3 the length. For van freight, the more typical configuration is the iconic 18-wheeler configured as a 1-2-2 axle combination. With an 80k pound weight limit that is the national standard, that works out to 12k-34k-34k, or 12,000 pounds on the steer axle, 34k on the drive axles as a pair and 34k on the trailer axles as a pair. If a truck or trailer has single axles instead of tandem axles, the 34k weight limit is reduced to 20k per axle. For axles to be considered a pair or tandem, they must be within 6 feet of each other otherwise they're calculated independently. So when you see flatbeds or reefers with axles 10 feet apart, it's to spread the weight of the load across a wider surface area but it also increases their legal capacity from 34k as tandems to 40k or 20k per single spread axle.

    Let's take a look at a common doubles configuration. This would be like FedEx, UPS, Con-Way, etc which run the 26 foot pup trailers instead of a 53 foot van. It has a lot of advantages logistically, but also if you count the number of axles it's still usually 5 axles - one steer axle, one drive axle, one trailer axle, one dolly axle (the linking vehicle between the two trailers), and one more trailer axle. But since each axle is legally allowed to carry 20k each, the whole truck could theoretically carry 92k pounds legally instead of 80k AND it spreads the weight more uniformly across the road surface. And if you've been on many toll roads including the Indiana Toll Road, you've probably seen THREE pup trailers, or a triple, increasing that theoretical weight limit even higher. Of course ironically these types of LTL carriers rarely bump into weight limits, their biggest obstacle is usually volume because what they carry isn't dense.

    Now this all comes back to states which may or may not allow higher-than-federal maximum weight capacities and some restrict the increased weight and length provisions to their toll roads but not the surface streets. You'll see parking lots at many toll road exits which is where they link up or break down those triples to smaller legal combinations or those companies which often run these combinations situate their facilities very close to the toll road exit so they can get waivered to proceed directly to their facility for the disassembly of the toll road configuration. Toll roads having this extended allowance has even given rise to the term 'turnpike doubles' which is instead of three 26-footers can be two 53-footers or the Rocky Mountain double which is a 53-footer with a 26-footer behind. They allow some pretty hefty combinations out west and ironically their roads are STILL better than Indiana's so I have to believe it's not the weight alone that's destroying our roads here at home but rather it's a scheme to keep paving companies in business by making disposable roads with built-in expiration dates.

    There's also been a discussion/strategy/industry effort to expand the turnpike arrangements to non-toll roads both for cost-efficiency and to help offset the driver shortage. More freight driven by fewer drivers equals more cost effective. Also, the added weight of two trailers doesn't actually increase the fuel burn that much because so much of the fuel economy is overcoming wind resistance and acceleration but once a truck is up to cruising speed the fuel to keep it rolling is minimal. The actual biggest objections to this are usually safety but some of those points are often misfounded and not based in facts or evidence. However, one thing that is a concern is drivers in four wheelers will need to get a whole lot smarter and if they don't then juries will need to because as bad as a wreck with an 80k pound semi is it'll be a whole lot worse if it's 160k pounds. These are actually more often the fault of the other driver but truck drivers are guilty until proven innocent any time a commercial vehicle is involved.

    And apart from the capacity increase, the fuel efficiency and labor efficiency is what technology seems to be focused on currently. Self-driving, electric and hybrid or exotic fuels, these are giving us minor improvements but if you could increase carrying capacity by 33%-90% without huge increases in equipment and labor, well that just seems like low-hanging fruit to me. But leave it to some bureaucracy or Karen to raise an irrational concern and derail real common sense solutions!
     
    Last edited:

    Thor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 18, 2014
    10,732
    113
    Could be anywhere
    It depends on how you want to pay for it. If a grocery or retailer needs 100Klbs of goods for you to buy, you can either pay for one truck to take it, or you can double the shipping cost and use two trucks. Just don't complain about "inflation."

    It doesn't double the damage to roads to send an overweight truck, but it will double the damage to use two trucks. Just don't complain about double the truck traffic.
    The costs should be paid for where they belong not hidden under subterfuge.

    The damage to the roads by overweight loads is not linear it is exponential. Once you exceed the rated stress capacity the damage is much greater. They are engineered to a standard, exceeding the standard is moving beyond specs. Oh, that's a 10 ton bridge? I'm sure it will hold my 20 ton load...this time. Next!

    Also, see what jake blue said.
     
    Top Bottom