The US military needs something more accurate, lethal and reliable than the M4

[smitty12b]

What does a 249 weigh? More or less than the 60 (sorry for the thread jack)

 

[gunowner930]

And one of the 5.56x45 myths that just won't die pops up again. Can anybody actually cite a government source that states that the 5.56x45 was designed to wound, and not kill?

 

[smitty12b]

And one of the 5.56x45 myths that just won't die pops up again. Can anybody actually cite a government source that states that the 5.56x45 was designed to wound, and not kill?

I can clearly remember being told it was a " Death Dealing Smoke Pole" in basic. Shoot to wound never came up.

 

[jeremy]

Oh, Im not saying its light by any means! Im in favor of the 5.56 as the standard round over the 7.62.
I know enough about the "SUCK" of too much gear. I was a 240B Gunner for years. 15 months of witch I was in Iraq with the 101st walking down canals and goat trails.. It sucked, but your everyone's best friend when SHTF.

Both rounds have its place is what I'm getting at with this. Very true most of the time we couldn't take full advantage of the range of the 5.56, we were to busy shooting, moving and communicating to be able to take that 300 meter shot. While the 240s, and SDM m14s took great advantage of our range and penetration. We work in a hand in hand relationship, but we could never switch back to 7.62 as a standard round. The weight it too much.

I am not arguing the fact that it has its place on the Battlefield lineup. Just discussing that it is NOT meant for the Majority of Soldiers. That is why we have a Squad Designated Marksman...

 

[xmas_asn]

What does a 249 weigh? More or less than the 60 (sorry for the thread jack)

The M249 is about 16 pounds, the M60 is 22 pounds, and the M240B is 28 pounds.

 

[xmas_asn]

I am not arguing the fact that it has its place on the Battlefield lineup. Just discussing that it is NOT meant for the Majority of Soldiers. That is why we have a Squad Designated Marksman...

Agreed..

 

[jeremy]

What does a 249 weigh? More or less than the 60 (sorry for the thread jack)

M249 weighs in at 17 lbs empty, and 22 lbs with a 200 round drum slung.
M60 weighs in at 23 lbs empty and 26 lbs with a 100 rds belt.
M240 weighs in at 26 lbs empty and 29 lbs with a 100 rds belt.

Could be wrong but that is what my mind says is right....

 

[jeremy]

And one of the 5.56x45 myths that just won't die pops up again. Can anybody actually cite a government source that states that the 5.56x45 was designed to wound, and not kill?

Would love to have an even semi creditable source for this...

 

[smitty12b]

The M249 is about 16 pounds, the M60 is 22 pounds, and the M240B is 28 pounds.

Thanks, that's what my boy is luggin around....are you one of the OPFOR guys at Irwin? That looks fun/hard as hell.

 

[rugertoter]

I thought the SCAR was going to replace the M-16. Totally different design there. The 5.56 is an accurate round, but lacks a little in horse power. I read some stuff on the 6.8x43mm, but don't think that is the answer either.

 

[Sylvain]

Maybe it could be time for a bullpup design?
Im not a military expert but since nowadays the military does more CQC than in the past a shorter weapon could be a good option.
Or you could have a bullpup rifle and still keep the lenght of the gun to the over all lenght of the M4.That way you have a longer barrel and more velocity with the same cartdrige.

 

[jeremy]

are you one of the OPFOR guys at Irwin?

I hate 'em cheating bastages....

 

[jeremy]

Maybe it could be time for a bullpup design?
Im not a military expert but since nowadays the military does more CQC than in the past a shorter weapon could be a good option.
Or you could have a bullpup rifle and still keep the lenght of the gun to the over all lenght of the M4.That way you have a longer barrel and more velocity with the same cartdrige.

You mean like the SA80 or the Steyr AUG...

 

[jeremy]

I thought the SCAR was going to replace the M-16. Totally different design there. The 5.56 is an accurate round, but lacks a little in horse power. I read some stuff on the 6.8x43mm, but don't think that is the answer either.

Only the SOCOM boys will get to play with the SCAR.
The US Military will be using the 5.56 for Decades to come. Would be a LOT of re-tooling and equipping to move away from the platform...

 

[gunowner930]

If anybody gets a replacement rifle, it will be from the M4/M16 family, at least until something is designed that is a huge step forward from the current M4s, and can be purchased at a reasonable price. It will take a long time for the 5.56x45 to go away because of NATO commonality.

 

[John Galt]

What of the 6.5 round? I read where it eats the lunch of the 6.8 and is a great short, medium and longer range round, plus, fits well into an AR platform. No "armchair soldier" here, just throwing out thoughts.

 

[smitty12b]

Only the SOCOM boys will get to play with the SCAR.
The US Military will be using the 5.56 for Decades to come. Would be a LOT of re-tooling and equipping to move away from the platform...

I hope not too many decades . I want in on all that surplus that will hit the market.

 

[gunowner930]

What of the 6.5 round? I read where it eats the lunch of the 6.8 and is a great short, medium and longer range round, plus, fits well into an AR platform. No "armchair soldier" here, just throwing out thoughts.

Convince the rest of NATO to adopt it...

 

[Sylvain]

You mean like the SA80 or the Steyr AUG...

Yes or like the FA-MAS G2.

And I dont just say that cuz im french.

 

[xmas_asn]

I hate 'em cheating bastages....

I wasn't always at Irwin, Once apon a time I was a Rakkasan.

And we don't cheat.. We just know the "Box" better and know how to work MILES. So what if out Vehicles can get near misses at 5K and kills at 2,500. What about my M4 that hits at 700m with a Aimpoint... Try zeroing yo $hI+! :P