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Tactical Decision Game - Wounded Warrior
- Thread starter JimFloyd
- Start date
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I think I'm a little offended by your implication. Treating wounds is not giving up.
Even for you, I presume there's a point where you stop being "in the fight" and start plugging holes, or do you just let yourself bleed out, or have your lungs collapse because your chest cavity fills with air from a sucking chest wound?
Also, I don't see the "get ready to meet my maker" posts as necessarily giving up. I had a wisecrack about "bend over, put my head between my legs, and kiss my ass goodbye" in my original reply which I deleted before posting. But for a person of faith (NB: I'm not) recognizing that this could be it, and it might be a good time for anything one wants to say to ones deity, any repentance one wants to get out of the way, etc., is not giving up either.
One part of recognizing ones own mortality is the realization that a particular incident "could be it."
Case in point. A good many years ago, when I was still young and foolish (one might argue about the second point, but I am most certainly not young any more
), I had just done some work on a motorcycle and opened it up on the road to "see what she'll do." Well, she'd "do" was over 105 when I hit high speed wheel wobbles which jerked the bar out of my hands and catapulted me into the road in front of the bike.The only thought that crossed my mind as I went over the bars was "I'm dead." However, that wasn't a "give up." In fact, I did everything I could to make that expectation not happen. Mostly it involved keeping my body as limp as I could and waiting it out while I rolled and tumbled, tumbled and rolled, and then tumbled some more (that seemed to go on forever) before I finally came to a stop in the median.
I shakily pulled myself to my feet and limped over (some pain in my knee) to inspect the bike. Not driveable then, but a new front brake master cylinder, a new handlebar, and a new right mirror would be all that it required. (That old Suzuki was tough.) I ended up on crutches for a week from twisting my right knee. (I healed pretty fast in those days.)
The upshot was that although I had a recognition that that could have been it, I could be on the way to see if there really was an afterlife* (or not, as the case may be), but that was a far cry from "giving up."
So you might want to be a tad careful about the assumptions you make about what people mean.
*You know, maybe I was killed then and this is the afterlife. In which case, I am very disappointed.
I think I'm a little offended by your implication. Treating wounds is not giving up.
Even for you, I presume there's a point where you stop being "in the fight" and start plugging holes, or do you just let yourself bleed out, or have your lungs collapse because your chest cavity fills with air from a sucking chest wound?
Also, I don't see the "get ready to meet my maker" posts as necessarily giving up. I had a wisecrack about "bend over, put my head between my legs, and kiss my ass goodbye" in my original reply which I deleted before posting. But for a person of faith (NB: I'm not) recognizing that this could be it, and it might be a good time for anything one wants to say to ones deity, any repentance one wants to get out of the way, etc., is not giving up either.
One part of recognizing ones own mortality is the realization that a particular incident "could be it."
Case in point. A good many years ago, when I was still young and foolish (one might argue about the second point, but I am most certainly not young any more
The only thought that crossed my mind as I went over the bars was "I'm dead." However, that wasn't a "give up." In fact, I did everything I could to make that expectation not happen. Mostly it involved keeping my body as limp as I could and waiting it out while I rolled and tumbled, tumbled and rolled, and then tumbled some more (that seemed to go on forever) before I finally came to a stop in the median.
I shakily pulled myself to my feet and limped over (some pain in my knee) to inspect the bike. Not driveable then, but a new front brake master cylinder, a new handlebar, and a new right mirror would be all that it required. (That old Suzuki was tough.) I ended up on crutches for a week from twisting my right knee. (I healed pretty fast in those days.)
The upshot was that although I had a recognition that that could have been it, I could be on the way to see if there really was an afterlife* (or not, as the case may be), but that was a far cry from "giving up."
So you might want to be a tad careful about the assumptions you make about what people mean.
*You know, maybe I was killed then and this is the afterlife. In which case, I am very disappointed.
Sorry, but I am unclear... do I understand correctly that "I" offended you? If so, I apologize as that was far from my intent. I was not referring to treating wounds as giving up, but more to the point of a general tone of "if I am shot in the left chest I am going to die." Of course my real point here was to elicit more discussion and share a point of view.
Regards,
Jim
No, it was not you who I found a bit offensive. I think you may have been overassuming on the "give up" side, but nowhere near the line to "offensive."
It was WETSU's lumping in "treat wounds" with "giving up" that I was bothered by.
Nor did I intend to be a dick with my comment. Those two concepts-giving up and treating wounds are NOT the same thing. Treating a wound IS part of getting ready to fight again.
Whne I want to be offensive. You will know it.
One doesn't have to want to be offensive to be so. Mind you, I could also have been simply primed by the sequence leading up to the specific comments so that I was excessively sensitive to them.
As for the "preparing to meet ones maker" comments that others have made, here's an example:
Some years ago I read a wonderful book "A warrior who fought Custer"--a compilation of interviews with a Cheyenne by the name of Wooden Leg (so named for the way he could walk anybody else into the ground) who was a participant at the Battle of Little Big Horn. One of the things he talked about was that the resplendent costume and "war paint" that the Cheyenne wore into battle was specifically in preparation against the possibility of their death--preparing to meet their maker.
While as a society they were doomed, one thing the Cheyenne were not noted for as individual warriors was a tendency to give up.
Preparing to meet one's maker and giving up are not necessarily the same thing.
dburkhead said: "Preparing to meet one's maker and giving up are not necessarily the same thing"
I agree 100%. I have had my bags packed for a long time, ready to go home when called. That doesn't mean I want to get on the bus right now.
I agree 100%. I have had my bags packed for a long time, ready to go home when called. That doesn't mean I want to get on the bus right now.
Ah, but are you so sure of the content of those bags that you might not want to do some last minute packing in a situation where the bus might (not necessarily is, just might) be leaving a little early? A situation where you're alone, with a gunshot wound in the chest, and help being an undetermined time away (an "average" is just that a stream with an average depth of 2" can still have a hole where the water's over your head).
A quick check of the bags, while doing ones best to be sure that one isn't getting on the bus this time, is only rational if one is a person of faith.
Call it contingency planning.
BTW, one of the things I've gotten from this is that I need to dig out my wilderness medicine books. They are good for "what to do" stuff dealing with injuries when you're really on your own.
indytechnerd
Master
* my emphasis in bold
RE: the 'stay in the fight' comments above. Based upon the bolded portion of the quote, my take on this is the fight is over. There is one attacker, you've perforated him pretty good, and he's not moving. Now is the time for plugging the hole(s) in your body and waiting on the cavalry to arrive.
Also, many, including myself, have mentioned praying. Just to be clear, I'm not praying for myself. My bags are packed, I've got no regrets, I'll get on the bus when it comes. Having said that, if my ticket is punched, I'm leaving behind a family. They are the reason for the prayer.
dburkhead wrote: "BTW, one of the things I've gotten from this is that I need to dig out my wilderness medicine books. They are good for "what to do" stuff dealing with injuries when you're really on your own."
Outstanding!... that means my purpose for creating and posting this scenario and subsequent comments was accomplished. Thanks!
Regards,
Jim
Outstanding!... that means my purpose for creating and posting this scenario and subsequent comments was accomplished. Thanks!
Regards,
Jim
Hoosier Gun Coat
Expert
Can't answer this one. Depends on if the body goes into shock.
One reason for me saying to pray is. Walking or doing any activity will lead to increased body function thus putting more strain on an already compromised system. Heavy breathing will accelerate the rate at which a pneumothorax (air in the chest cavity) or worse yet a hemopneumothorax (Liquid in the chest cavity. ie: blood) will cause problems even death if serious enough or goes untreated. Keeping calm and doing as little as possible will be best, and praying usually does not accelerate any body functions but does alot of good otherwise. The threat is eliminated, and walking around or back to a vehicle is and un-needed venture at this time inthis scenario. This may change in different situations and walking or even running if the body is capable may be a have-to in a different setting to get medical help.
Not trying to debate this, but added this for clarification
Not trying to debate this, but added this for clarification
I have no idea what you just said so I'll just assume it was fawning adoration.
Um... not exactly.
That's supposed to be the Klingonese translation of "Today is a good day to die", a phrase used by at least one Native American tribe (Edit: Sioux) prior to battle. It's not fatalistic, but rather an acknowledgement that "I've lived a good life. I have no regrets. If today is my time, then so be it."It struck me as a very similar idea to that which you stated.
Blessings,
Bill
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I'm pretty sure the 10 second issue is just the amount of time you're supposed to spend thinking about it, not "what would you do in the next 10 seconds".
So for me it would be about priorities.
1) Ensure there is no other threat. Most likely this would simply involve a quick scan of the area and another hard look at the BG. To me that is more important than the bleeding wound because while you're doing first aid you're extremely vulnerable. If there are more BG's, you're in a lot of trouble. That might be the only time I'd head for the car because at least I'd have some cover to do quick first aid.
2) Assuming all is clear, get help. If someone is nearby tell them to call 911. If not, call 911 myself, put it on speaker while I...
3) Get out a knife and hack off some clothing to stop the bleeding. I'd certainly rather have the stuff in the first aid kit in my truck, but 100 feet is a long way with this kind of injury and you could make things a lot worse. If someone happens to be available to help by then, tell them where the first aid kit is and ask for a coat or blanket.
4) Lay down. If possible, elevate my feet. Try very hard to calm my breathing and therefore blood pressure.
5) Wait for help. Do whatever 911 tells me to do. Mention to them that I have a gun and that I'm a GG...so please ask the nice police officers not to shoot me when they get there.
6) Pray. I'd be praying more for strength and help in hanging on than repenting. Oh I have lots to repent for, but I'd much rather be alive to do that so I'd be asking for any help I could get!
So for me it would be about priorities.
1) Ensure there is no other threat. Most likely this would simply involve a quick scan of the area and another hard look at the BG. To me that is more important than the bleeding wound because while you're doing first aid you're extremely vulnerable. If there are more BG's, you're in a lot of trouble. That might be the only time I'd head for the car because at least I'd have some cover to do quick first aid.
2) Assuming all is clear, get help. If someone is nearby tell them to call 911. If not, call 911 myself, put it on speaker while I...
3) Get out a knife and hack off some clothing to stop the bleeding. I'd certainly rather have the stuff in the first aid kit in my truck, but 100 feet is a long way with this kind of injury and you could make things a lot worse. If someone happens to be available to help by then, tell them where the first aid kit is and ask for a coat or blanket.
4) Lay down. If possible, elevate my feet. Try very hard to calm my breathing and therefore blood pressure.
5) Wait for help. Do whatever 911 tells me to do. Mention to them that I have a gun and that I'm a GG...so please ask the nice police officers not to shoot me when they get there.
6) Pray. I'd be praying more for strength and help in hanging on than repenting. Oh I have lots to repent for, but I'd much rather be alive to do that so I'd be asking for any help I could get!
Armed & Christian
Sharpshooter
Get the trauma bag from my car, pack the wound with gauze and put on an occlusive bandage. Seriously...you guys don't keep your BOB and 1st Aid stuff with you?
Redskinsfan
Expert
assess wound and move toward car
I would assess and treat my chest wound, using my own clothing as a direct pressure bandage. I would then call 911 for an ambulance and wait in my car while keeping an eye on the assailant. If the assailant gets up an leaves I make mental note of it, if he comes toward me I aim as soon as there is a distinct enough pattern to shoot at and order him to stop. If he stops, I tell him an ambulance is on the way and to not move, if he does not stop I fire on him again.
I would assess and treat my chest wound, using my own clothing as a direct pressure bandage. I would then call 911 for an ambulance and wait in my car while keeping an eye on the assailant. If the assailant gets up an leaves I make mental note of it, if he comes toward me I aim as soon as there is a distinct enough pattern to shoot at and order him to stop. If he stops, I tell him an ambulance is on the way and to not move, if he does not stop I fire on him again.
