Sell Defective Firearm?

[DustyDawg48]

You should put an option of "I've unknowingly bought/traded for a gun that had issues and the seller DID NOT disclose the issues"

That is the story behind my M&P45. In the end, though, I got the better part of the deal since the fix was very simple after taking a bit to figure out what was the cause for all the failure to feed issues.

 

[BE Mike]

You should put an option of "I've unknowingly bought/traded for a gun that had issues and the seller DID NOT disclose the issues"

That is the story behind my M&P45. In the end, though, I got the better part of the deal since the fix was very simple after taking a bit to figure out what was the cause for all the failure to feed issues.

Usually, I get a pretty good feel for the seller during communications, even if it is just e-mails. When the seller points out every little mark, it usually makes me more comfortable. Sometimes the seller might take a gun in and not be aware of issues, but I would hope that they would at least give the gun a good once over to determine if there is an issue, especially about safety. Mostly I've purchased used guns that I know I can replace parts myself to get it running or make it safe. I've seen some pretty "doggy" guns at gun shows. Usually they are priced so far above market value that it looks to me like the seller is looking for an unsuspecting "mark". All that being said, there is no sure way to make sure that we buyers don't get a gun with issues. The only thing we can do is arm ourselves with as much information as possible. Someone could probably make some money by publishing a book, somewhat akin to the "Blue Book of Gun Values", but instead of values, give tips on how to check for proper function and safety of various types of firearms.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Usually, I get a pretty good feel for the seller during communications, even if it is just e-mails. When the seller points out every little mark, it usually makes me more comfortable. Sometimes the seller might take a gun in and not be aware of issues, but I would hope that they would at least give the gun a good once over to determine if there is an issue, especially about safety. Mostly I've purchased used guns that I know I can replace parts myself to get it running or make it safe. I've seen some pretty "doggy" guns at gun shows. Usually they are priced so far above market value that it looks to me like the seller is looking for an unsuspecting "mark". All that being said, there is no sure way to make sure that we buyers don't get a gun with issues. The only thing we can do is arm ourselves with as much information as possible. Someone could probably make some money by publishing a book, somewhat akin to the "Blue Book of Gun Values", but instead of values, give tips on how to check for proper function and safety of various types of firearms.

Yeah, I think I just ended up wanting the deal a bit too badly and didn't quite ask the right questions of the guy. he was on GlockTalk and the trade was good across the board but when I got the gun to the range she'd jam about every other shot. Failure to feed. I tried tinkering with the mags, polishing the feed ramp, stripped and cleaned the thing as far down as I could go. My next thought was having to replace the extractor, which on the M&P I hear is a nightmare. before calling S&W and seeing if they could take a look at it, I sat down with some dummy rounds and started slowly hand-cycling the gun and caught exactly where it was at the moment of the jam. It turns out the bottom of the extractor had a sharp burr and it would dig into the case rim and keep it from sliding up against the breech face and then chamber the round. A few moments with some 400 grit sandpaper cured it and I now have a 100% reliable full-size M&P45 that is a blast to shoot! I got lucky, I think he was a tad deceitful in not disclosing that info about the gun but I got off with the better part of the deal I feel.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I've always disclosed the issues BEFORE the transaction meeting, usually in the ad. Unfortunately, I've had people sell me items that were not disclosed.

Goes to show there are always folks out there willing to screw another over.

I sold a RIA that I had bought from a co-worker, who "polished the barrel feed ramp" AKA dremeled it back about an 1/8". Would severely guppy belly brass. I sold it for a VERY low amount with the knowledge of the issue. Fella buys it, spray paints it with some Duracoat, adds some "Wilson parts" and tries to sell it for double what he bought it from me before. Same barrel. Got into a bit of a tiff as he said he "fixed it" but the barrel was clearly the same.

 

[LarryC]

Didn't have the question posed in a way I could honestly answer it! Actually although my son & I collect firearms, we very rarely sell any. He did sell a defective S&W revolver to a Pawn shop, the frame was obviously cracked (friend fired a second round after a bullet jammed in the barrel due to light powder load). My son did inform the dealer prior to the sale even though the defect was quite visible. I have purchased some malfunctioning firearms, but have always corrected the problem myself. (I do inspect all firearms thoroughly prior to purchase (unless purchasing online).

Would I sell a known defective firearm? Certainly, although I wouldn't sell a gun with a safety related issue to anyone except a person with the knowledge to either repair the problem or that intended to have a professional correct the problem before the buyer fired the gun.

Would I inform the seller of any known defect? I would NEVER sell anything (firearm, auto etc.) to anyone without disclosing any known problems. I don't lie to people, my memory isn't good enough to tell a lie and then remember what I said.

In my life I have bought a few firearms that didn't function properly - only two that I couldn't correct myself. One was a Japanese rifle, the dealer had not cleaned the bore, but said it should be a "shooter". I did buy it cheap, however after cleaning the bore I found there was Zero lands left and very heavy pitting. In my opinion it was unsafe to even fire, so I returned it the next day and received full credit on another gun.

The only other gun (actually purchased by my son) was a 1911 made by a firm in a western state. During the first trip to the range the gun went full auto and came apart in my son's hand. He returned it to the local GS. They said they would return it to the manufacturer and have it repaired or replaced.

We did end up with a problem as after 5 or 6 weeks with no communication and no gun, my son asked me to intervene. I did a little investigation and found the manufacturer had gone out of business. So I went to the GS with my son and got somewhat of a runaround. This shop was owned by two local policemen. After a short discussion, I informed them if they did not return my sons money within a week we would sue them in Small claims court!
We received a full refund 3 days later.

I am somewhat like Reagan when buying - as he stated "trust but verify"!

 

[rockhopper46038]

With full disclosure, I don't see a problem. I've bought several "problem guns" with full disclosure, and a couple without any disclosure The buyer needs to factor these things into their offer, all you need to do is provide honest, complete information.

 

[BE Mike]

The only other gun (actually purchased by my son) was a 1911 made by a firm in a western state. During the first trip to the range the gun went full auto and came apart in my son's hand. He returned it to the local GS. They said they would return it to the manufacturer and have it repaired or replaced.

We did end up with a problem as after 5 or 6 weeks with no communication and no gun, my son asked me to intervene. I did a little investigation and found the manufacturer had gone out of business. So I went to the GS with my son and got somewhat of a runaround. This shop was owned by two local policemen. After a short discussion, I informed them if they did not return my sons money within a week we would sue them in Small claims court!
We received a full refund 3 days later.

I am somewhat like Reagan when buying - as he stated "trust but verify"!

Was the 1911 purchased by your son a new pistol or used? If it were new, the manufacturer should be the one to turn to if there is a problem. Of course in your son's case the company went out of business (I'm guessing AMT).

 

[Mark 1911]

I have never sold a gun with a functional problem. I think I could get a better price if it was working. That being said, as long as you are honest and the buyer knows exactly what he is buying, including any defects, OK.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Sold a savage jammomatic to a dealer at the 1500, but with full disclosure.

 

[Bravo-4-2]

The buyer has a responsibility to conduct due diligence in any such transaction, gun or otherwise.

 

[BE Mike]

The buyer has a responsibility to conduct due diligence in any such transaction, gun or otherwise.

So you are saying that the seller has no burden to reveal known problems?

 

[Bravo-4-2]

So you are saying that the seller has no burden to reveal known problems?

Your reading comprehension skills may need a bit of work. I wrote that the buyer has a responsibility as a participant in the transaction. You have an obligation to be an educated buyer and to practice due diligence in all buying decisions. Is there a part of that you didn't understand?

 

[dyerwatcher]

I would never sell a defective gun to another person. I did trade a Kimber in to a Gun Shop. I was not able to "Break it in" after 650 rounds. No defective-just not anything I would stake my life on.

 

[jsharmon7]

I try to be overly transparent in my disclosure of appearance and mechanics of a firearm. I would rather the buyer be surprised that the gun is in better condition than they expected than to show up and there be unacceptable issues that kill the deal. It's a waste of everyone's time to meet up and not make a deal because of an issue, or for them to PM me a couple days later with issues they've discovered since the sale and we have to meet back up to make it right. I also don't want to be morally responsible for something bad happening because I sold a gun that had issues that I didn't disclose simply to rid myself of a problem gun. Buyers should do their research and know what they are getting, but some things aren't apparent until it goes to the range for the first time. I've always had really good luck on INGO though, so hopefully it continues that way. This is a good site with a lot of good people.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

The options don't cover me. I bought one semiauto rifle with undisclosed problems, and so far have upgraded it from worse than a muzzle loader to a fancy bolt action; hope to have it running soon. Myself, I don't mind so much, engineer that I am I can fix about anything, and I have enough rifles I don't have to depend on the thing. I would never sell something with a problem I knew about without being brutally honest about it. It's a do unto others thing. I don't appreciate being done to, and I won't presume anyone else does either.

 

[AllenM]

I frequently buy guns with issues. It's not a problem as long as I know in advance.

 

[Cowboy71]

I've sold a couple of guns recently that I struggled over selling or just keeping as paperweights. One was a Colt Combat Commander with a hairline crack in the frame. I certainly did not want to sell a gun with this kind of safety issue lightly but I was able to determine that the problem could be repaired if someone was willing to spend the money. So I put up an ad and made sure to designate the gun as inoperable in its present state and clearly featured where and what the damage was. I was lucky enough that a 1911 enthusiast here on INGO was more than happy to have it as the still functional parts alone on the gun were worth more than the deep discount I sold it for being a damaged firearm.

The second one was a Remington 870 Express that I had owned for about fifteen years. It was fired a few times without any problems when it was purchased but had remained sitting in a safe sense then. I put it up for sale and actually had a few people that wanted it when, testing the gun for function, I discovered that something was causing shells to jam as they were pushed up into the chamber. I immediately took it down from sale and tried to determine the problem. It was beyond me so I ended up taking it to a local gunsmith who supposedly repaired the problem but in fact didn't fix it. My dilemma at this point was to just keep it or sell as is with a disclaimer. I ended up putting it back up for sale and made it clear that the gun had a big problem that needed to be professionally repaired. I found a buyer and made it clear what the problem was. The price was about a third of the normal value so the buyer had ample room in the cost to have it repaired. When we met to make the transaction the first thing I did was show him the problem and made sure he was ok with it before purchasing. He was so in the end I didn't feel like I had cheated anyone or sold something that would put someone in danger sense he was made well aware that the gun needed work before it was properly operational.

 

[Airborne18th]

I would sell with complete disclosure or break it out into parts and sell it that way.

 

[LarryC]

Was the 1911 purchased by your son a new pistol or used? If it were new, the manufacturer should be the one to turn to if there is a problem. Of course in your son's case the company went out of business (I'm guessing AMT).

It was a brand new pistol in the box. Could well have been an AMT - happened over 20 years ago, don't remember the company now. Yes I agree this should have been the manufacturers responsibility but as they were no longer in business, and as the firearm was defective as sold, it became the GS that sold the gun. The pistol was returned to the GS within 3 or 4 days after purchase. They took responsibility and said they would take care of it (as they should have). The issue was that they returned the gun to the manufacturer and they went out of business with the gun in their possession. With this being the case, I believed the GS to be responsible and required them to return the money paid. They apparently believed the court would agree and so returned his purchase price.

To me this is like purchasing a new car. If you get a lemon from a Ford dealer, you return it to the dealer not Ford. If the problems cannot be resolved the courts hold the dealer responsible ~ not Ford. A dealer in any merchandise becomes the intermediary in resolving issues like this, they make a profit selling the items, and are responsible for satisfying the customer. In most cases they receive the money paid out from the manufacturer.

Obviously there are limits to the dealers responsibility, after a reasonable amount of time the customer (30 days or so) does have to return defective merchandise to the manufacturer ~ case in point a lifetime guaranteed rifle scope. However the merchandise must be defect free as delivered or it is the dealers responsibility - in my son's case the pistol never fired a magazine without issue.

 

[BE Mike]

It was a brand new pistol in the box. Could well have been an AMT - happened over 20 years ago, don't remember the company now. Yes I agree this should have been the manufacturers responsibility but as they were no longer in business, and as the firearm was defective as sold, it became the GS that sold the gun. The pistol was returned to the GS within 3 or 4 days after purchase. They took responsibility and said they would take care of it (as they should have). The issue was that they returned the gun to the manufacturer and they went out of business with the gun in their possession. With this being the case, I believed the GS to be responsible and required them to return the money paid. They apparently believed the court would agree and so returned his purchase price.

To me this is like purchasing a new car. If you get a lemon from a Ford dealer, you return it to the dealer not Ford. If the problems cannot be resolved the courts hold the dealer responsible ~ not Ford. A dealer in any merchandise becomes the intermediary in resolving issues like this, they make a profit selling the items, and are responsible for satisfying the customer. In most cases they receive the money paid out from the manufacturer.

Obviously there are limits to the dealers responsibility, after a reasonable amount of time the customer (30 days or so) does have to return defective merchandise to the manufacturer ~ case in point a lifetime guaranteed rifle scope. However the merchandise must be defect free as delivered or it is the dealers responsibility - in my son's case the pistol never fired a magazine without issue.

Most gun shops will sell used guns "as is". New guns usually have a warranty period (Ruger is an exception) and I would think that sending the defective firearm back to the manufacturer would be the best way to go. Most manufacturers, once contacted, will send a shipping label so the gun can be sent directly to the factory without cost to the customer. Ford dealerships are a lot different than gun shops. I'm not an attorney, so I can't comment on the legal responsibility.