SCOTUS Strikes Down ObamaCare Individual Mandate

[CarmelHP]

Before we condemn Roberts, we need to understand why he did this. Supposedly his writing the opinion saves us from a liberal justice writing it and screwing things up more. (if that's possible) I'm sure we'll get plenty of discussion on this going forward. I can also see flint and powder sales going up.

Not if it's 5-4. If he sided against it he would be in the majority. Roberts appears to have been the swing vote here.

 

[Bunnykid68]

& thus why this article back from 2010 is the way to go in order to avoid ObamaCare and NOT pay the "tax penalty".
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...how_to_avoid_obamacare_in_two_easy_steps.html

That article is flawed. If you did not have a refund coming the IRS would send you a bill for the taxes you have failed to pay.

 

[jedi]

BTW can we now focus on the Contempt of Congress on Holder that is also scheduled for today.

 

[Bunnykid68]

BTW can we now focus on the Contempt of Congress on Holder that is also scheduled for today.

Wow, amidst all this talk I completely forgot about Holder

 

[Justin Case]

During the 2008 election Obama repeatedly said this was not a tax. However, in front of the Supreme Court government lawyers agrued they could mandate this as a tax. Bottom line: Obama lied and we're paying for it.

 

[jedi]

That article is flawed. If you did not have a refund coming the IRS would send you a bill for the taxes you have failed to pay.

From the article:

Now here’s why: According to USA Today, the IRS is in charge of collecting the fines on those who don’t purchase health insurance — “up to $695 or 2.5% of their income, whichever is higher” — but it can only do so by withholding the money from a taxpayer’s refund. Ergo, no refund, no fine.

---
The law (at least from the article as I have NOT read the law) was written in such a way that yes you are fined a fee for NOT having health insurance but that fee the IRS can ONLY collect from your tax refund.

So no refund, no way to collect the fee. The fee is only collectable for up to 10 years afterwards the IRS can not collect it anymore.

 

[Zoub]

I expect this is going to super-charge the TEA Party for the fall elections. I recall listening to some speculation that if this happened, Chief Justice Roberts (who is being excoriated even as I write this) would side with the majority so he could write the opinion. Upholding the individual mandate as a power of Congress to tax should serve as a lesson to all of us that we need to severely limit Congress' power to tax us.

A healthy serving of Taxes with a side dish of "F you" on Fast and Furious and suspending enforcement of various immigration laws on a State by State basis.......

Yeah, I think all of this will not only help Romney but also help knock Harry Reid down, which frankly is just as important as not having Big O appoint any more Justices.

Term limits, tax limits, limits of all kind, we need them now.

 

[mrjarrell]

For readers of the opinion, a quick look at pp. 31 and 32 of Roberts' opinion tells you why the Court is sustaining as a tax measure.

To save a great deal of slogging through the decision, here's a shortcut.

 

[.45 Dave]

Here's the thing: this is going to make Obama even bolder! He's going to think he can do anything he wants now. Watch your guns. He'll be moving toward disarming us next and what's to stop him? Public opinion be damned, the courts agree with him. This is just the opening salvo. And don't count on the Republicans winning in November or doing anything about it if they do--if there are any elections.

 

[jedi]

Wow, amidst all this talk I completely forgot about Holder

BINGO!!!! BINGO!!! BINGO!!!!
Just andother way Kirk's F&F is buried again.

 

[mrjarrell]

Here's what it boils down to. They had to actually reach for this one.

Essentially, a majority of the Court has accepted the Administration's backup argument that, as Roberts put it, "the mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition -- not owning health insurance -- that triggers a tax -- the required payment to IRS." Actually, this was the Administration's second backup argument: first argument was Commerce Clause, second was Necessary and Proper Clause, and third was as a tax. The third argument won.

 

[Spot Me 2]

U.S Constitution. Born Sept 7, 1787. Died 6/28/2012.
While on life support for some time, she still showed signs of life. The supreme court decided to pull the plug this morning, thus stripping us of any rights and freedoms we had left. God help us all!!!

 

[Zoub]

From the article:

Now here’s why: According to USA Today, the IRS is in charge of collecting the fines on those who don’t purchase health insurance — “up to $695 or 2.5% of their income, whichever is higher” — but it can only do so by withholding the money from a taxpayer’s refund. Ergo, no refund, no fine.

---
The law (at least from the article as I have NOT read the law) was written in such a way that yes you are fined a fee for NOT having health insurance but that fee the IRS can ONLY collect from your tax refund.

So no refund, no way to collect the fee. The fee is only collectable for up to 10 years afterwards the IRS can not collect it anymore.

Like all things, as money is owed and goes uncollected, tactics to collect will change. Like placing leins on any and all property which requires a title. Land, homes, vehicles etc.

IMHO the absolute worst aspect of this has always been that the IRS will grow and now be in the medical collections business.

 

[KG1]

Of course the mandate has alway's been considered a form of taxation.

That's why the IRS has been put in charge of enforcing the mandate and the reason why they are adding new personel and buying new shotguns.

 

[mrjarrell]

Interesting way to look at it.

The rejection of the Commerce Clause and Nec. and Proper Clause should be understood as a major blow to Congress's authority to pass social welfare laws. Using the tax code -- especially in the current political environment -- to promote social welfare is going to be a very chancy proposition.

 

[dom1104]

Here's the thing: this is going to make Obama even bolder! He's going to think he can do anything he wants now. Watch your guns. He'll be moving toward disarming us next and what's to stop him? Public opinion be damned, the courts agree with him. This is just the opening salvo. And don't count on the Republicans winning in November or doing anything about it if they do--if there are any elections.

Only took 3 pages to get to "OBAMA IS COMING FOR OUR GUNS!".

I am surprised its not on page one.

 

[JB357Mag]

Gee um what if u cant afford it?

Jimmy

 

[teddy12b]

Gee um what if u cant afford it?

Jimmy

You would now be a criminal and some of the newly hired IRS agents with their new remington 870 shotguns will soon be at your door to "help" you.

 

[longbow]

The Dow Jones is tanking at the moment.....

 

[mrjarrell]

Here's what it boils down to for the individual.

Take a quick look at Footnote 11, which is on page 44 of the slip opinion: Those subject to the individual mandate may lawfully forgo health insurance and pay higher taxes, or buy health insurance and pay lower taxes. The only thing that they may not lawfully do is buy health insurance and not pay the resulting tax.