Red dot sights for AR-15

[cedartop]

Well, with an acog or any scope that has illumination, it's possible to use it as an OEG.

If you get used to it, and practice with it that way, even some ridiculous magnification scope can effectively be used in point-blank shooting situations.

That's the whole ideal behind the BAC reticles on the acog models.

For me, I usually drop the dot low and right a few inches and at indoor distances I'm spot on like that. The only downside of the OEG concept is that you need to do pretty quick reactive shooting, and not give your eyes time to focus or you'll lose your zero.

Right you are. But if you don't care to have magnification, you might not want to spend the extra $700.00 on the ACOG over the aimpoint. (of course you can always put on a flip up magnifier.) I really like the smaller profile of the Micro as well. It really comes down to what you are after. I use an Aimpoint Micro on my main AK, as it is my goto CQB gun. I am considering an ACOG 3X for my AR, but can't decide.

 

[rhino]

Right you are. But if you don't care to have magnification, you might not want to spend the extra $700.00 on the ACOG over the aimpoint. (of course you can always put on a flip up magnifier.) I really like the smaller profile of the Micro as well. It really comes down to what you are after. I use an Aimpoint Micro on my main AK, as it is my goto CQB gun. I am considering an ACOG 3X for my AR, but can't decide.

Another thing is that the number of people who really can use the BAC effectively and quickly is small compared to the number of people who claim or think they can do it. I've seen a few who do it well and I've seen many who (at best) shot nice groups several inches to one side of where they want their rounds to go, or they go so slowly that it's pointless.

 

[Tombs]

Another thing is that the number of people who really can use the BAC effectively and quickly is small compared to the number of people who claim or think they can do it. I've seen a few who do it well and I've seen many who (at best) shot nice groups several inches to one side of where they want their rounds to go, or they go so slowly that it's pointless.

All has to do with practice.

Since these aren't dedicated OEGs and you aren't sighting them in for that kind of shooting, you need to know your gun exceptionally well and know where the bullets will end up.

People who go slow compromise their ability to use that concept, as it allows time for your zero to shift as your eyes try to adjust their focus. Just have to trust that your gear will do its job, snap the rifle up and shoot. Spend any time thinking about it, and it'll be impossible to hit the broad side of a barn.

If someone is having trouble with the concept, it might be a good investment for them to try to pick up an old single-point or armson. A true dedicated OEG will force them to learn the fundamentals of the concept.

Dropping pictures so people know what they look like:

 

[rhino]

All has to do with practice.

Practice certainly helps, but not everyone can do it regardless of how much they practice. Not everyone's brain processes visual information the same way. Not everyone can train themselves to accommodate what they're seeing/perceiving. If it were just a matter of practice, people who can do it effectively would be more common.

 

[03A3]

I like Aimpoint red dots. Those H1's are especially nice. Small and light.
I can't see paying the extra money for a T1, not for the average person.
The battery life for Comp M3 and Comp M4 are unreal. Good for people like me that can never remember to shut one off.
I have one AR rifle-specific ACOG, a 4x. It does a pretty good job. It's better for intermediate ranges, while the red dots I prefer for close range.
I put an H1 on my GF's home defense gun. It seemed liked the most logical choice and we both have confidence in the optic.

 

[lrahm]

I guess that I am going to be the only "old school" guy here. I like my iron sights. I feel that if I carry my AR every day I want to be able to see everything. I guess that I tend to get tunnel vision looking through a scope and miss the big picture plus I'm not going to be shooting far enough away that I need a scope with it. My target patterns are above good with my sights. I feel comfortable with it.

 

[Smitty506th]

I say try both and see what YOU like better. Both are tough and proven in their own ways. People will swear by both. I have days worth of time on the Aimpoint and it feels "right" for me. If I had days worth of time on the other i'm sure EO would feel perfect. Put the time on the weapon with the optic you like and muscle memory will do the rest. My best advice is to use mil-spec equipment. I personally invest in gear you could hit with a bat and action on your target. Lots of options and price ranges. I say put together a group shoot and check out different setups.

 

[Tombs]

I guess that I am going to be the only "old school" guy here. I like my iron sights. I feel that if I carry my AR every day I want to be able to see everything. I guess that I tend to get tunnel vision looking through a scope and miss the big picture plus I'm not going to be shooting far enough away that I need a scope with it. My target patterns are above good with my sights. I feel comfortable with it.

IMO, anyone who can shoot well with irons is going to be better served with irons than a red dot. Exceptions would be special applications that basically require it.

So much more versatility in irons... That's why I don't go with red dots anymore, because at a distance that requires more than point-shooting I'm going to prefer some magnification. I always have this strange illusion that the target is further away, with a red dot.

With a scope, all I see is a circular part of the image coming through it against the rest of my full FOV. Pointing with my left eye and adding small corrections with my right. Also has a hell of a lot brighter image. I think the best thing I've used in the way of optics in my lifetime has been the PK-AS. 1x prism optic that sits off the left side of your gun, has a 55/45MOA elipse with a 1MOA dot. You use your left eye to look through it, and can move your head just a slight bit from there to look down your irons. Wish the leupold prismatic would have used a reticle like that.

 

[lrahm]

IMO, anyone who can shoot well with irons is going to be better served with irons than a red dot. Exceptions would be special applications that basically require it.

So much more versatility in irons... That's why I don't go with red dots anymore, because at a distance that requires more than point-shooting I'm going to prefer some magnification. I always have this strange illusion that the target is further away, with a red dot.

With a scope, all I see is a circular part of the image coming through it against the rest of my full FOV. Pointing with my left eye and adding small corrections with my right. Also has a hell of a lot brighter image. I think the best thing I've used in the way of optics in my lifetime has been the PK-AS. 1x prism optic that sits off the left side of your gun, has a 55/45MOA elipse with a 1MOA dot. You use your left eye to look through it, and can move your head just a slight bit from there to look down your irons. Wish the leupold prismatic would have used a reticle like that.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and tip. It's been drilled into our head to "scan". I might be ould but it take me a little too long transition from scanning back to a scope.

Stay safe, thanks.

 

[iChokePeople]

I guess that I am going to be the only "old school" guy here. I like my iron sights. I feel that if I carry my AR every day I want to be able to see everything. I guess that I tend to get tunnel vision looking through a scope and miss the big picture plus I'm not going to be shooting far enough away that I need a scope with it. My target patterns are above good with my sights. I feel comfortable with it.

Have you used something like an EOTech or Aimpoint? I totally get what you're saying with magnified optics, agree completely... but not with either Aimpoint or EO stuff that's not magnified. With this stuff, you should be firing both eyes open, the edge of the optic should disappear, and you should be noticing nothing but your full FOV with a lovely magical dot (reticle) floating around lighting on things like a deadly butterfly. I used to be hardcore irons -- many years in the military using irons only -- but I'm COMPLETELY sold on the EOTech (my personal preference) or Aimpoint now. Yeah, I still have my irons, and I still practice with them now and then, but I can acquire and engage targets more quickly and more accurately with red dots, for sure.

 

[RichardR]

Have you used something like an EOTech or Aimpoint? I totally get what you're saying with magnified optics, agree completely... but not with either Aimpoint or EO stuff that's not magnified. With this stuff, you should be firing both eyes open, the edge of the optic should disappear, and you should be noticing nothing but your full FOV with a lovely magical dot (reticle) floating around lighting on things like a deadly butterfly. I used to be hardcore irons -- many years in the military using irons only -- but I'm COMPLETELY sold on the EOTech (my personal preference) or Aimpoint now. Yeah, I still have my irons, and I still practice with them now and then, but I can acquire and engage targets more quickly and more accurately with red dots, for sure.

Same on this end.

I still have several iron-sighted rifles that I enjoy shooting & I'd be more than comfortable if that's all that I had in an emergency, however in an IARD type situation I'd really rather to be acquiring my target through an EoTech.

 

[rhino]

Everyone needs to be able to shoot with iron sights.

Given that, there are situations where pretty much everyone is going to shoot better (acceptable accuracy more quickly) with a red dot. The first example that comes to mind are unorthodox shooting positions. You need a consistent placement of your head/eyes to use iron sights. That's not always going to be possible if you're in an unusal position, shooting around cover, etc. Another situation is for shooting from your non-dominant side.