Position of VFG (or none) on Carbine??

[esrice]

After consuming massive amounts of media concerning AR-15s and M4 carbines over the past few weeks, this question has come up. . .

Vertical Foregrips - Yay or nay? If yay, then WHERE do you mount them?

I've seen the entire spectrum present in today's training world.

First, a member of the local SWAT team prefers not having a VFG at all; instead opting for gripping the front of his magwell (notice the light tape-switch).

Next, I see lots of guys running their VFGs about as close to the magwell as they can get.

Some get moved even forward still. . .

Until you end up with it ay out at the end near the muzzle (most recently seen with Kyle Lamb/VTAC or TigerSwan, shown).

Is this simply a "preference" thing? Or is one arguably better than the rest? Does each way simply perform better given a specific set of circumstances (urban soldier vs. SWAT entry team)?

Then we come to your grip on the VFG-- again I see it all over the board. Some grip it like a tommy-gun, while others grip it with their thumb up on the forend. Some bring their thumb AND index finger up to the forend.

Perhaps this is a "training school vs. training school" thing? One teaches it THIS way and one teaches it THAT way, and you can quickly figure out who's been where by their VFG position and grip preference?

What do my fellow INGOers think?

 

[bigcraig]

This a personal preference issue. What works for me may not work for you.

Don't over think it, Evan.

 

[NateIU10]

I use them about 1/4 way up from the magwell on a CAR length rail. The longer out, the more stable it would be, the closer in, the easier to move around and adjust, or at least that's how it felt to me when positioning it originally. I think it's personal comfort really though.

 

[repair]

I tried a front grip on my AKs and didn't like them but I tried one on my AR and I really like it so both of mine have one now.

You will just have to try one and place it where it feels good to you.

 

[jeremy]

It is all personal preference. I prefer to have my surefire mounted close to the magwell. Close as in I can barely get my thumb in there to activate the nav lights.

 

[abnk]

I assume you need one to help with activating the light. The light should preferably be at least parallel with the FSB (no farther back). Based on the light, place the VFG where you can activate the light with ease.

If you do not need for the light, go with comfort.

Like bigcraig said, don't overthink it.

 

[esrice]

Don't over think it, Evan.

So this is truly a case of simple personal preference and there's no voodoo involved?

I know there's gotta be people reading this that think their's is THE way. . .

 

[repair]

I know there's gotta be people reading this that think their's is THE way. . .

Yeah but I ignore them.......

The best thing to do is send me 100.00 and I will research it for you.

 

[jeremy]

Better yet send me the accessories in question and I will field test them across the middle east. Write a report on my findings so you will be better informed and can make that much more of an informed, intelligent decision.

 

[esrice]

The best thing to do is send me 100.00 and I will research it for you.

I gave Fenway $100 (in hat + swag money) and he gave me this awesome site for all my research purposes.

Better yet send me the accessories in question and I will field test them across the middle east. Write a report on my findings so you will be better informed and can make that much more of an informed, intelligent decision.

Hahaha, rep to you my friend!

 

[shooter521]

So this is truly a case of simple personal preference and there's no voodoo involved?

Evan:

We'll cover this tomorrow. To answer your questions, though:

1) YES - I run vertical foregrips on just about everything. ARs, AKs and my M-11/9. My Saiga-12s will get 'em eventually, too.

2) On carbine-length system, I run the VG about halfway down the rail. This works well with the light, and IME allows "driving" the gun more positively than having the VG all the way back or gripping the magwell. It also doesn't interfere with pivoting the upper completely open if need be.

The extreme forward mounting position has come into vogue relatively recently, primarily from instructors like Vickers and Lamb. It and allows for maximum control over the gun, but may not play well with lights or other accessories mounted in certain positions. There's also a heavy influence from the 3-Gun side of the house that advocates no VG at all.

 

[clt46910]

I did not care for them. Had one on a couple of the AR's but took them back off. Just was not comfortable to me. I rather just grip the forearm.

Just my personal taste.

 

[jeremy]

The main reason I utilize a grip at all is for positive retention of the weapon during transitions. It is just more comfortable to pull the weapon around with.

 

[rhino]

For my own use and how I advise other people:

If you want to use a vertical foregrip, put it as far forward as you can and still be able to comfortably hold the rifle. Your support hand is what drives the gun onto target and from target to target. The closer you are to the end, the longer your lever is and the faster you can drive the gun. In addition, you're less likely to overswing if you have you hand as far forward as possible.

How far forward you can use one will depend on how you're built. With my stubby T-Rex arms, mine is not much forward of the magwell, but it is as far forward as I can comfortably use it at this time. I'm trying to inch it forward a slot at a time and so far so good.

There is nothing wrong with holding on the magwell (unless your fingers are long enough to obstruct the ejection port), especially if you have one threat/target and you're already on it. You can have a very stable firing position that way. If you have more than one target/threat or potentially have more, or you need to get onto the target/threat quickly, you'll have better luck by positioning your support hand as far forward as possible for your build, whether you use a vertical foregrip or not.

The of course, there is the matter of how you hold the thing. I don't really "hold" mine. I use as a "stop" for the palm of my hand so I can pull the rifle into my shoulder. My index finger is pointing down the handguard toward the target/threat and my thumb is doing whatever it needs to do (hit the light or not).

Some people wrap their fist around them. Some wrap their fingers around itand point their thumb up or forward.

 

[slow1911s]

I don't use them because I have a hard enough time getting my arm out far enough as it is on a rifle length hand guard (I'm 6'6").

What they (VFGs) were invented for was someplace to put your hand when someone came up with the great idea to start hanging all sorts of lights, lasers, IR, etc on the fore end. If you're not hanging stuff out there, I don't see the point, yet your mileage may indeed vary.

 

[obijohn]

This a personal preference issue. What works for me may not work for you.

Don't over think it, Evan.

there you go.

 

[agentl074]

Those look pretty tacti-cool but we didn't need them in Security Forces haha.

 

[Zoub]

This a personal preference issue. What works for me may not work for you.

Don't over think it, Evan.

+1 if you are like this on VG's stay the F*** away from shotguns you will explode!

My GF has to use one due to massive injuries to her weak hand forearm. It solved a lot of ergonomic issues for her. For that reason only I have practiced with one but I just prefer to grab the magwell if I want to tighten up. I shoot rifles with the same trick shotgunners use, the forearm steers the gun and I point my index finger at my target.

When hunting I much prefer not to have one and it is easier to go prone without one and a 20 rd mag. I also prefer to carry it all day without one. I can see having one for full auto. visions of WWII tommy guns going full auto with a VG

 

[Zoub]

So this is truly a case of simple personal preference and there's no voodoo involved?

I know there's gotta be people reading this that think their's is THE way. . .

When I was young, 14-15, I would beat national trap champs in what we called the "Porch Shoot." You know why, because no one told me I couldn't beat them and I NEEDED the prize money. They had their muscle memory and expensive guns but at the end of the night when we stepped back off the pad and and I got the cow buster Beretta O/U from my bosses trunk I was lord God of the porch shoot. $30-$50 in my pocket when minmum wage was $2 per hour.

Kids are great shooters because no one has told them what they can't do. Their minds are pure. They don't know they are supposed to miss. Put money on the table and watch how focused they get. My daughter will shoot your nuts off at 100 yards for $1.

Years ago people use to look at my G21 and say WTF? But years later when the SEALS invented the "Offensive handgun" I was suddenly in vouge. My gun had sights on it that worked for me, not about offense or defense, just me.

Nice thing about VG's, they come right off and can go right back on.

Do it Evan, put it where you want it to be..............on the gun that is.

 

[esrice]

Do it Evan, put it where you want it to be..............on the gun that is.