Non-Lethal Handgun Rounds

[IMPULSE.ACTIONS]

I've been thinking about this for a while now.

What are your guys thoughts on carrying a non-lethal round only as your chambered round?

Could you send a 2nd or follow up shot quick enough if you need the lethal force?

Are non-lethal or "rubber" rounds in .45, .40. 9mm etc. readily available?

I guess I'm just curious what everyone else's thoughts are on all the aspects of this.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I've been thinking about this for a while now.

What are your guys thoughts on carrying a non-lethal round only as your chambered round?

Could you send a 2nd or follow up shot quick enough if you need the lethal force?

Are non-lethal or "rubber" rounds in .45, .40. 9mm etc. readily available?

I guess I'm just curious what everyone else's thoughts are on all the aspects of this.

If its time to pull the trigger, the time for "warning" somebody has passed. The warning comes verbally and as a last resort, as drawing down on them. If they don't take things seriously when you draw down, and there is still a threat, you're shooting to stop the threat. And if you really need to stop a threat quickly, do you want that first round to be a fake? IMHO, if its time to pull the trigger, the games are over and its all serious. The non-lethal stuff is for crowd control and such, not life-or-death self-defense situations.

Thats my

 

[mikea46996]

IMO if the threat isn't enough to use lethal rounds then your weapon should NOT have been unholstered!!!

 

[Archbishop]

I agree with other posters if you pulled your gun you're shooting to stop a threat. Will you have time to take a second shot if needed? What happens if your second shot misses? What if there are multiple bad guys? You want the first guy down before you move to the second. Many reasons to think this is a bad idea, , but assuming you wanted a less lethal round you could load a revolver with shot shells. This might lessen the chances of killing someone, but in the end even this might do them in.

 

[Boilers]

any law restricting the other way? That is, poison tipped rounds?

 

[Mgderf]

How 'bout some "light" rounds? We could pack them full of feathers and TICKLE the perp into submission! Or maybe rounds loaded with pool chalk, you could Smurf them to death!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Is that a real question?

 

[The Meach]

Its a realistic question guys. Honestly I wouldn't mind knowing myself.

 

[IMPULSE.ACTIONS]

My thoughts and feelings keep coming back to exactly how countryboy and mike have explained it but I was just curious what others opinions were on this. I like many others hope that i never have the day come that I would have to draw my firearm and have always said in a defense situation that if it comes out of the holster I have already made the decision to use it.

Mgderf, yes they are real questions, thanks for the input.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Squeezing the trigger on your firearm constitutes deadly force. A prosecutor would likely begin with a question such as, "If you didn't feel the situation required deadly force, why did you draw in the first place?" or conversely, "If you felt the situation required the use of deadly force, why did you fire a non-lethal * round at the defendant?"

If you're going to go over the barrel anyway, you might as well have actually stopped the perp so he doesn't have the opportunity to take advantage of your position twice.

Blessings,
Bill

*(Yeah, I know. "less lethal". I'm trying to use the kinds of terms they'd probably use to get the jury to say you're guilty.)

 

[Crystalship1]

My thoughts and feelings keep coming back to exactly how countryboy and mike have explained it but I was just curious what others opinions were on this. I like many others hope that i never have the day come that I would have to draw my firearm and have always said in a defense situation that if it comes out of the holster I have already made the decision to use it.

Mgderf, yes they are real questions, thanks for the input.

IMHO, Your question is legitimate and I understand it. You/we are (generally speaking) good and decent people. We have no desire to kill anyone. But as the others have stated, by the time you pull the trigger all other options are gone and since sometimes there is only time for one shot, it better count!!!

 

[Bisley Man]

This has been true for 150 years!

If its time to pull the trigger, the time for "warning" somebody has passed. The warning comes verbally and as a last resort, as drawing down on them. If they don't take things seriously when you draw down, and there is still a threat, you're shooting to stop the threat. And if you really need to stop a threat quickly, do you want that first round to be a fake? IMHO, if its time to pull the trigger, the games are over and its all serious. The non-lethal stuff is for crowd control and such, not life-or-death self-defense situations.

Thats my

Repped for good advice!

 

[The Meach]

I did some looking and i found some

MidwayUSA - X-Ring Rubber Bullets 45 Caliber (451 to 452 Diameter) Box of 50

Honestly i think they might be a great idea for Cheap practice ammo. reusable, no powder (they fire of of just the primer) and you can use spent brass.

Here is a site on the loading procedure

Rubber Practice Ammo

 

[longbow]

Not a good idea in my mind........

 

[pftraining_in]

Something to keep in mind, anything loaded to less lethal velocities will not have enough velocity to run the action of a semi-automatic firearm. You also run the chance of stacking fired rounds in the barrel when you deal with low velocities. In a stressful situation you may not see if a less lethal round left the barrel, firing a lethal round behind it would make the person behind the firearm the casualty.

Any situation where a person other than a police officer would be justified in using less lethal, I believe, would be seen as a situation were retreat would be a better option. Use of less lethal impact weapons, especially one that is deployed from a firearm, requires significant training. Anything less lethal that impacts the body from a firearm can become lethal by being fired too close to the suspect and if aimed at the wrong location on the body.

 

[Hammer]

If you want a less than lethal shot, bullet placement is where you should focus.

But IMO, if (and I hope never have to) I pull a gun..... I have deemed the situation a deadly threat to me and this person wants to kill me, and my goal at that point is to kill him before he kills me.

 

[Joe Williams]

When I'm fishing, hiking, in the woods for whatever, the first two rounds are often snakeshot. That's the only time I carry less lethal rounds. Frankly, it is my opinion that if a self defense situation doesn't justify using lethal ammo, it doesn't justify using a gun.

 

[Mgderf]

Didn't mean to be curt. Your question just brings to mind a quote I saw AGAIN, just the other day.
Uncle Ted Nugent says,
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like DEAD offenders".
It is MY opinion that firearms are "DEADLY WEAPONS", and are to be used as such!
Less than lethal, in my opinion, would be a baseball bat, or my fist!

 

[Sailor]

Leave your gun alone, reach into your pocket and pull out your OC.

 

[Doug]

Rubber bullets are great for practice. They won't work the action on a semi-auto but they are fine in revolvers.
An alternative is to buy cakes of candle wax and push the cases into the wax to put a wadcutter type bullet into the case. You don't have to find the wax bullets.

Non-lethal first rounds are a bad idea because the first thing you lose in a gun fight is awareness of how many rounds you have fired. There are cases on record where an experienced LEO said he fired 2 or 3 times when, in fact, he had emptied his 15 round magazine. When its time to shoot, shoot, don't tap.

Doug

 

[UltraRick]

Leave your gun alone, reach into your pocket and pull out your OC.

Ding ding ding... We have a winner!