need projectile suggestions (223, 16" 1:8 AR, H4895 or IMR 4064)

[Blockfort]

going to start reloading for my new AR. 16" heavy barrel, 1:8 twist. I have H4895 and IMR 4064. will test at 100y and likely not shoot past 300y.

Main purpose for now is just to find the limits of accuracy for my rifle.

should I just go for 77 grain or is there a good reason to try for something lighter (or heavier)?

 

[BoilerWes]

If you try a lighter load, I like the 53 grain Hornady V max.

 

[Blockfort]

If you try a lighter load, I like the 53 grain Hornady V max.

is that appropriate for a 1:8 twist?

 

[BoilerWes]

I wouldn’t expect it to be a problem. I have a JP Precision with 1:8 twist that shoots them sub moa. It tends to shoot everything pretty dang well though.

 

[Blockfort]

I wouldn’t expect it to be a problem. I have a JP Precision with 1:8 twist that shoots them sub moa. It tends to shoot everything pretty dang well though.

hornady and sierra both said 77 would be right in the sweet spot, but that lighter/shorter bullets will likely work as well. the problem will be finding small rifle primers.

 

[indyjohn]

It depends.

Some will say 77 is too heavy for a 1:8 barrel. Years ago (maybe still today) Krieger tried to solve this with a 1:7.75 twist. Slow enough for an 80gr but you could still get away with a 69 at 200 & 300 yds. That's what I have and shot 69s close and 80s far (500/600yds) with respectable success. I'd have to go look at my recipe book but I don't think I ever used 4064 or 4895, it was always Varget. I'm not saying it can't be done but those powders are slow and were designed for big, heavy projectiles. I've never shot anything lighter than a 69 gr pill out of my match rifle. I think you will begin to see accuracy problems with lighter projectiles as you increase your distance.

 

[indyjohn]

...the problem will be finding small rifle primers.

Um, 5.56/.223 only use small rifle primers.

 

[Blockfort]

It depends.

Some will say 77 is too heavy for a 1:8 barrel. Years ago (maybe still today) Krieger tried to solve this with a 1:7.75 twist. Slow enough for an 80gr but you could still get away with a 69 at 200 & 300 yds. That's what I have and shot 69s close and 80s far (500/600yds) with respectable success. I'd have to go look at my recipe book but I don't think I ever used 4064 or 4895, it was always Varget. I'm not saying it can't be done but those powders are slow and were designed for big, heavy projectiles. I've never shot anything lighter than a 69 gr pill out of my match rifle. I think you will begin to see accuracy problems with lighter projectiles as you increase your distance.

hornady, sierra, and hodgdon all said those powders will work perfectly well for what I want to do.

I likely will not be shooting very far, I just shoot paper at 100-300y on my property. I just want to see what the rifle is capable of and I like load testing.

 

[Blockfort]

Um, 5.56/.223 only use small rifle primers.

yes, the problem is finding small rifle primers.

 

[Squid556]

For what it’s worth… i have had tremendous success with Hornady 75 BTHP and Varget. 5.56 chamber, 18” 1-8

As time goes on I’m more curious about sierras 69 grain match bullet. I like the extra velocity. 75s shoot great but they are basically smothering the 5.56

If you’re not shooting past 300 I’m not sure there is much advantage for the heavies. You may find bullets in the 60 grain range will serve you better.

 

[Blockfort]

For what it’s worth… i have had tremendous success with Hornady 75 BTHP and Varget. 5.56 chamber, 18” 1-8

As time goes on I’m more curious about sierras 69 grain match bullet. I like the extra velocity. 75s shoot great but they are basically smothering the 5.56

If you’re not shooting past 300 I’m not sure there is much advantage for the heavies. You may find bullets in the 60 grain range will serve you better.

i told sierra it would be nice if we could buy a variety pack, he laughed and agreed.

 

[Leo]

The 1 in 8 twist barrel will take you where you want to go. I used the 77 Sierra MatchKing very successfully at 200-600 yards. I only owned 2 krieger barrels in my life, one in an AR, (it shot great) the other on a bolt rifle. The one in the bolt gun would not shoot any bullet, and I got the run around so I never bought another.

In my competition, there were also matches where reduced size targets were used on the little 100 yard ranges. The X ring on the 600 simulated target is dime sized. I shot several 10X cleans on that target in my career with the little 52 grain Sierra MatchKings, out of the same 1-8 twist barrels. This was not an anomaly, as I replaced the barrel on my #1 service and my #1 match rifle every year. Even the 1 -7.5 twist factory barrel on the COLT HBar would stabilize the 77, 69 and 52 gr Sierras all the same.

In my experience any barrel that stabilizes the heaviest will do fine with a quality light bullet. You cannot judge a barrel if you are using combat grade, surplus bullets, especially from 3rd word counties.

 

[Blockfort]

The 1 in 8 twist barrel will take you where you want to go. I used the 77 Sierra MatchKing very successfully at 200-600 yards. I only owned 2 krieger barrels in my life, one in an AR, (it shot great) the other on a bolt rifle. The one in the bolt gun would not shoot any bullet, and I got the run around so I never bought another.

In my competition, there were also matches where reduced size targets were used on the little 100 yard ranges. The X ring on the 600 simulated target is dime sized. I shot several 10X cleans on that target in my career with the little 52 grain Sierra MatchKings, out of the same 1-8 twist barrels. This was not an anomaly, as I replaced the barrel on my #1 service and my #1 match rifle every year. Even the 1 -7.5 twist factory barrel on the COLT HBar would stabilize the 77, 69 and 52 gr Sierras all the same.

In my experience any barrel that stabilizes the heaviest will do fine with a quality light bullet. You cannot judge a barrel if you are using combat grade, surplus bullets, especially from 3rd word counties.

I guess I should really buy three boxes. some 55's, some 60-somethings, and some 77's and see what the rifle likes.

 

[BE Mike]

Leo has been there and done that, so I'd follow his advice. My rifles have a 1:7 and 1:8 twist rate. They both shoot 75 hpbt bullets extremely well. I never found a reason to load lighter bullets, but if I ever do, I'll follow Leo's lead and try the Sierra 52 grainers. I mostly use Alliant Reloder 15.

 

[Leo]

I mostly use Alliant Reloder 15.

Reloader 15 works great in an AR shooting all weights of bullets. Varget and 4895 are great too, H4895 is so close to Varget, I don't know why they make them both. Some excellent shooters have also used VV135, IMR 8208 xbr (that meters great in the reloader) . I even had some good luck with BLC-2, but it did not hold a tight velocity variation, not a problem on short courses. The AR gas system does not seem to be picky.

Thanks for the Kind words.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Anyone tried Ramshot Tac with the 75gr - 77gr bullets. I like it for 55gr &62gr.

 

[jrh84]

A 1:8 twist will stabilize anything up to and including 80 gr Sierras, which have to be single fed (too long to fit in a magazine). 69 gr matchkings, 69 gr rocky mountain reloading bullets, 73 gr Hornady ELDs, 75 gr Hornady BTHP, 77 Sierra and Noslers would all be great bullets in your setup, and be perfect for 300 yards.

Hornady 75 and 80 ELDs are too long to load to magazine length.

Varget, Shooters World Precision, R15, 8208XBR, Ramshot TAC, AR Comp, VV N135 and N140 would all be suitable powders for mid/heavy .223 loading.

Enjoy!

 

[Blockfort]

A 1:8 twist will stabilize anything up to and including 80 gr Sierras, which have to be single fed (too long to fit in a magazine). 69 gr matchkings, 69 gr rocky mountain reloading bullets, 73 gr Hornady ELDs, 75 gr Hornady BTHP, 77 Sierra and Noslers would all be great bullets in your setup, and be perfect for 300 yards.

Hornady 75 and 80 ELDs are too long to load to magazine length.

Varget, Shooters World Precision, R15, 8208XBR, Ramshot TAC, AR Comp, VV N135 and N140 would all be suitable powders for mid/heavy .223 loading.

Enjoy!

ordered SMK HPBT 77's to start. will shoot my nosler 77's to sight-in, then reclaim that brass.