Looking at Safes

[Faine]

Greetings, This year I believe will be the year the wife and I invest in a safe. Our firearms and other valuables will exceed in value what we're comfortable with having unsecured and so we feel it's time to make the investment into our future. The price range is probably going to be in the 1600-2200 range, it's such a wide range because of circumstances we're going through this year.

I'm a big fan of keeping my money local so when I read about Johnson Safe Co I immediately said, Yes! Then I saw prices and I almost went caps lock I was so excited! Now that the excitement is over I have a few questions. I read, doing my research that it's best to put a safe in a corner so leverage cannot be gained to bend the door out. I also read that ideally the safe would be on and outside wall of the the home, because even though they are fire rated the edges of a burning home don't get as hot as the middle. Now all of this is location based and I'd like to know if the information is sound.

In the home I'm moving into the only options for location of a safe will be in the garage or basement most likely, if these were the only viable options which is better? I do know that in the 60 years the house has existed it has never had standing water in the basement. My major concern with putting a safe in the basement is what if it did get standing water. I've not found any safe companies that boast of water proof seals, is water a legitimate threat to my belongings in a safe?

Finally, when it comes to bolting a safe down into cement as that will probably be my only option are there any suggestions tips or tricks that one can employ to ensure a more secured safe? Are Johnson safes all made to order? Are there options when you order like hinge side, colors of safe and interior, lock mechanism, options to have electricity run into the safe and lights and evaporation equipment installed?

I've done a bit of research on safes but more knowledge is better when making decisions regarding the protection of investments. Also, companies like to eschew any information out that will make them look superior to others so you will choose them, so who knows what of my research is biased poop. I am much more confident in putting my faith into a local company knowing if something goes wrong customer service is a few miles away.

Anyway, any viable feedback is welcome, but I would prefer it stay relevant to my questions and Johnson Safes, recommending a stack - on or another company would serve no purpose here as I am interested in a Johnson Safe and basic information.

 

[tsm]

Water could be a problem since you'll likely want to put some sort of electrically operated warmer (goldenrod, light bulb, etc.) in the safe to keep the humidity under control and that requires at least a small opening where water could get in, unless you drill that access hole high up on the safe. Many safes come with such holes already and those are usually somewhere near the bottom. Might want to check that on the safes you're considering.

I've got a Zanotti since I was mostly interested in securing things away from the grandchildren, plus you can construct it in areas that are too small to move a completed safe into thus making it a little more secure from removal.

 

[Faine]

Water could be a problem since you'll likely want to put some sort of electrically operated warmer (goldenrod, light bulb, etc.) in the safe to keep the humidity under control and that requires at least a small opening where water could get in, unless you drill that access hole high up on the safe. Many safes come with such holes already and those are usually somewhere near the bottom. Might want to check that on the safes you're considering.

I've got a Zanotti since I was mostly interested in securing things away from the grandchildren, plus you can construct it in areas that are too small to move a completed safe into thus making it a little more secure from removal.

I had thought about that which was why I was curious about if Johnson safes were custom ordered. I would certainly want my electric wiring to be higher on the safe, particularly for a basement install where the electric outlet would be in the ceiling.

 

[snuffy33]

Give Jeff a call or drive out there and take a look at a safe first hand. He can answer all your questions.

 

[pitbulld45]

You can always go with a dehumidifyer that can be plugged into the wall then placed into the safe once it is ready. If there is a hole you can silicone it up. I have my safe in the basement. It cant be taken outside this way and also the basement is usually the coolest place during a house fire. I bought a Cannon and am very happy with it. I left mine on the 4x4 crate to be up a little higher just in case of water. I have seen some safes that boasted water proof. I think if a safe is air tight it will be water proof also but that is just my opinion.

 

[SideArmed]

You don't have to have a cord running from your safe to have a dehumidifier in there. They make "rechargeable" dehumidifiers. basically it's just desicant with a built in heater/ dryer. when the window turns pink (or blue can't remember off the top of my head, you pull it out of the safe and plug it in the wall for a couple of hours and it dries itself out. Then pop it back in the safe. Lasts about 3-4 weeks in the winter and about 2-3 in the summer before needing to recharge it.

I have a Ft Knox safe, and am very happy with it. They are worth a look at, but not sure if or where someone in your area sells them. If you are around Johnson Safes I would say talk to Jeff. I have checked out his safes at the 1500 and if I for some reason need to get an additional safe i would give him some serious consideration as well.

 

[Faine]

Thanks for this feedback all. I know this section is pretty low on the forum list and a lot of people don't make their way down here so I appreciate you stopping in to offer advice. Hopefully more people will hop in over the next couple days.

I don't want to inconvenience anyone right now with showing up to a place of business or giving them the illusion they might make a sale that day. I'm trying to basically feel my way through the process before I get my hands dirty if you know what I mean.

I really think I'd like a wired safe, I mean for the investment being put into it why not take care of the little details? That's why I'd like a high hole on the plug if it's a basement install at least, but the issue with the basement install is going to be the stairs down. They're at most 4' wide and they drop about 10' in probably 7-8' so they're super steep and tall steps. The cieling down there is between 6'6" and 7', so it'd be a tight fit all things considered and the safe would have to clear the cieling on the stairs because the diagonal wouldn't allow it to be "tipped" into place without damaging the floor joists above. Of course I wouldn't be able to leave it on the pallet most likely given the height limitation I may be under. Water is probably a very minor issue it was just a "if". That basement hasn't had water in it since the house was made, it's not likely to just start taking on water all of a sudden.


Additionally as an OCD color scheme freak I want it to be in what I believe are proper colors that would be un-obtrusive to my mancave or garage. I guess I'd really have to take stock of the installation options to determine what can ACTUALLY be done versus what I WANT done. I think Johnson Safes are very pretty, appear to be well made, made in Indiana, and have a really good rep.

 

[Gary72]

I have a Johnson Safe on order. I did a lot of research on this subject over the past three years before pulling the trigger. I also own a 10 year old Frontier safe with a 3/8” door so I have something to compare it to as well. You can see a lot of what I learned in this earlier post https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/johnson_safe/251684-need_help_selecting_a_safe-2.html#post3606945

As to your specific questions here are the conclusions I came to. What you read about putting your safe in a corner surrounded by concrete is always a good thing for both security and fire temperatures. Any safe needs to be securely fastened unless it weighs so much it can't be moved. You are going to find out Johnson's safes have solid 1/4" doors with 10 ga. body or 3/8" doors with 7 ga. body's. This type of structure is nothing like the composite doors and as little as 14 ga. construction you will find with almost every safe in local farm or big box stores. I can enter any safe including Johnsons, but I have tools very few people have from being involved with the millwright industry. The biggest thing a safe does is keep the kids and nitwits out and they all do that. But when you are trying to keep a criminal out you either need to make it difficult or just take a long time. They don't like to work much or they wouldn't be a criminal, they also like to get in and out quickly and both of Johnson's series are going to deter most criminals. Even with my tools it is going to take a good while. With a Johnson safe there is no way they are going to pry open the door, like they would any composite door. On the lighter safes the criminals are going to just take a sledge and cave in the door or take a fire axe and cut the light side or back skin easily and enter that way. Neither will work with the much heavier Johnson safe particularly the series with the 3/8" door.

As to fire Johnson uses Ceramic insulation instead of the cheap stuff and he solid welds all the seams which is a very big deal when compared to everyone else’s skip welds. They are rated 2,600 degrees for an hour and that is going to make it through most fires and is a much higher standard than any of the safes I researched. I will put my second safe in my basement in the corner with both walls solid concrete, but mine is a walkout basement so water isn't an issue for me. Jeff has all the options you asked about and when he delivers it he will securely fasten it to your floor for a reasonable price, something I highly recommend. I also watched and assisted just a little when he delivered my friends safe into his basement and I think it will go easier than you think. If I had to pick a basement or garage, I would probably pick the garage and then buy a heavy safe that isn't easy to get into and make sure I properly fastened it down. If a crook can get past Johnsons 3/8" door and 7ga. walls the basement isn't going to make any difference to him. A leaky basement also isn't the biggest cause of water in safes which pretty much all lead if they sit in standing water. Many people have had a fire and then find that their safe in the basement or the one upstairs that fell into the basement during the fire was filled with water from the fire hoses that put out the fire. 2' to 3' of water in a basement after a fire isn't unusual. About the only negative to putting it in your garage is more people will see it and know you have something you think is worth protecting. Buy the heavier safe, fasten it down right and if they try to open it you will just have a hammered and scratched up safe they didn't get into unless they are pros and then it will not matter. By the way most home owners insurance will pay to repair the safe, I checked and mine does.

Every time I walk through places that display safes I have to at least smile or actually laugh. The videos that are running are a joke. They claim heavy doors and they turn out to be laminated 12 ga. something I can be into in 5 minutes. They claim outside hinges, because most companies with inside hinges use such light metal that they easily bend and can’t be easily fixed. Take a look at Johnsons hinges, a half back hitting the door isn't going to bend his inside hinges and the safe looks a lot better with inside hinges to me. The fire ratings are always pushed and you will find they use dry wall for their protection and have skip welded seams that in a fire buckle and let the plasma of the fire directly into the safe. I am around a lot of people with safes and the cheap light ones never do what they claim they will do. I have seen some of the top end safes have reasonable specs and once in a while they even have solid doors, but I have never seen one as heavy as Johnsons and they are always higher priced. But, if all you are trying to do is keep out the kids they all work and that is definitely better than leaving guns out where they can be involved in an accident. So good luck on whatever you end up buying.

 

[airman0404]

GARY72: Thanks for the info. I'm going though what you already did. So any advice and recommendations is great. I'm focusing on Johnson also. It sounds like our locations/setup would be similar.

 

[Faine]

Excellent info and suggestions, my wife seems dead set on it being in the basement for some reason, but that can all be worked out later. I appreciate you taking the ime to write all that up.

 

[ctb1]

I'm researching gun safes as well and am definitely in the learning stages. One thing I can add is about the color of the Johnson safes. The fellow I talked to at the last Indy 1500 (I guess that was Jeff) told me he uses automotive paint and could make my safe any color I wanted.

I told him I was thinking of putting a safe in a small closet that would only accomodate a 28" wide safe. He said no problem, he could customize the 30" model and just charge me the 30" price. Not sure I'm going with the closet idea, but really liked his attitude. Seemed like a good guy to work with and the safes definitely looked like quality.