Indiana Multigun Series Match #2 at South Central

[GNRPowdeR]

Nice show, Kevin!

 

[Vespid_Wasp]

I agree with you. Our goal is to have a safe match. On that particular stage it would not have been a DQ, because it was not unsafe. The stage descriptions were lacking and that's on me. It will get better.

I was DQ'ed on stage 6. RO said, STOP!. I stopped. He said, "You broke the 180." I looked at the target, looked over my shoulder, and said, "No, I didn't break the 180, but I am over that fault line." Not the RO's fault, it was in the stage description and he was just following that. I don't think a 2 ft white painted line on fresh white gravel is a sufficient fault line. Needs to at least be contrasting colors or better yet a board staked to the ground.

I'm not going to complain. A club running their very first three gun match, I expect there to be some growing pains and I did cross the fault line while reloading. Other than this spot and a couple of other questionable target placements, I thought the stages were well done.

I do not like the idea that 'stage rules can over rule match rules'. Either we have a 180 degree rule, or we don't. I didn't flag anyone with my muzzle, and I didn't do anything unsafe. But I wasn't going to throw a big **** fit over it. I had a new shooter there with me and took the opportunity to help him have a good first match experience.

Kevin's statement that "It will get better." is encouraging. I imagine tackling a club's first 3-gun match is going to expose some growing pains.

As long as arbitrary stage by stage safety rules don't become the rule of the day, I'm happy. It shouldn't be insurmountable to design stages where the 180 keeps everyone safe. There was one other stage where upon abandoning the shotgun led immediately to backing up to engage a pistol target. That shouldn't happen.

 

[scheesman]

I do not like the idea that 'stage rules can over rule match rules'. Either we have a 180 degree rule, or we don't.

I can completely understand your frustration, and I think it is something that we can all learn from. However, I hope you understand this statement is short-sided. There are many scenarios where a "floating 180" are necessary. Hillside uses them on the shotgun walk. I've been to many major matches where stage rules override match rules. They serve a very important purpose when used properly.

 

[Vespid_Wasp]

I can completely understand your frustration, and I think it is something that we can all learn from. However, I hope you understand this statement is short-sided. There are many scenarios where a "floating 180" are necessary. Hillside uses them on the shotgun walk. I've been to many major matches where stage rules override match rules. They serve a very important purpose when used properly.

Good point and fair.

I guess my point could be summed up as:

I don't think people should be DQed for safe gunhandling.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

"Floating 180" last the entire stage when there is a defined uprange/down range on things like the shotgun stages you speak of. There should never be a stage with a "real" 180 and a spray paint 180 just because.

 

[scheesman]

"Floating 180" last the entire stage when there is a defined uprange/down range on things like the shotgun stages you speak of. There should never be a stage with a "real" 180 and a spray paint 180 just because.

My point is that there are times when a stage rule will override match rules. I wasn't there so I cannot speak to the specifics at South Central, but I have seen matches at other ranges where it was clearly stated "do not fire at array A beyond Point B" even though Point B was well clear of the 180. Sometimes there are ricochet issues to take into account. Sometimes there are other issues at hand. But there is usually a reason, even if it may not be obvious.

We will look at the issue and try to learn from it. If there is something that can be gleaned from this, we will try our best.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

I know you will, bro. No hard feelings by any means. We appreciate every range that is willing to take on the task of hosting an INMG match. Like I said, other than those 2 issues, everything ran great and I was truly impressed with the stage design from a range that has never done an INMG match. They were successfully able to mate a USPSA style match while incorporating 3 guns. Which, as we know, is the hardest thing to do regardless of how simple it sounds.

 

[scheesman]

Things can come across the wrong way on the interwebs! I think we're all on the same page though!

 

[scheesman]

Here are the results for match #2. Thanks to all!

Results

 

[Latewatch]

I was DQ'ed on stage 6. RO said, STOP!. I stopped. He said, "You broke the 180." I looked at the target, looked over my shoulder, and said, "No, I didn't break the 180, but I am over that fault line." Not the RO's fault, it was in the stage description and he was just following that. I don't think a 2 ft white painted line on fresh white gravel is a sufficient fault line. Needs to at least be contrasting colors or better yet a board staked to the ground.

I'm not going to complain. A club running their very first three gun match, I expect there to be some growing pains and I did cross the fault line while reloading. Other than this spot and a couple of other questionable target placements, I thought the stages were well done.

I do not like the idea that 'stage rules can over rule match rules'. Either we have a 180 degree rule, or we don't. I didn't flag anyone with my muzzle, and I didn't do anything unsafe. But I wasn't going to throw a big **** fit over it. I had a new shooter there with me and took the opportunity to help him have a good first match experience.

Kevin's statement that "It will get better." is encouraging. I imagine tackling a club's first 3-gun match is going to expose some growing pains.

As long as arbitrary stage by stage safety rules don't become the rule of the day, I'm happy. It shouldn't be insurmountable to design stages where the 180 keeps everyone safe. There was one other stage where upon abandoning the shotgun led immediately to backing up to engage a pistol target. That shouldn't happen.

I'll take the hit on this one. During the RO walk thru, we discussed the possibility of a 180 problem on this stage. After discussing it we put the additional fault line in place to make sure there were no problems. Due to the last minute change, there was not time to put in a proper fault line. Looking back, the line was probably over cautious and was not, in the situation cited, a true 180 violation. I apologize for that but since this was the first 3 Gun match at this club and the Club was using the outcome of this match to determine whether future 3 Gun matches will be held, we erred on the side of caution. This was my call and therefore my fault for any resulting errors.

 

[Vespid_Wasp]

I will be back to shoot at South Central next match. My biggest complaint is that I didn't get to shoot the rest of the match, and the stages were fun and I was shooting well considering it was my first match of the year. I'm not trying to condemn the club or INMG, or even the people running the match. I know there is a LOT of stuff going on and that sometimes the finer details of a stage don't become apparent until people start shooting it. I'm happy to have multi-gun growing within the state. I'm content with the responses and I can't fault anyone for erring on the side of caution. I won't be at Wildcat this weekend because of a family event but I will see you all on the range soon.

Thank you for the response Latewatch and the scheesman.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

Here are the results for match #2. Thanks to all!

Results

Awesome. Thanks, Sean!