Help with youth/lady shotgun 12g

[chef1231]

So I have scorched earth trying to find a shotgun that my kids and wife can use for sporting clays. I would prefer a O/U but open to semi auto if that helps the recoil for them. This is just something for them to shoot a few times a year when they go with me and realistically not something they need but,,, I want to keep it a 12 gauge and that’s were I run into a problem. I see that CZ used to make a youth version but not anymore. Same with browning. Anyone point me in the right direction right now I have a Blaser F16 with 32 in barrels and it’s too much for my kids and my wife and daughter are about the same size now so… open on $ but $1k-$2k would be the sweet spot

 

[Mgderf]

Look at the new Mossbergs.

 

[chef1231]

That’s one I never would have thought of. They do have an adjusting one with a 13.5 LOP.

 

[Mij]

IMO, if you are wed to 12 ga. how about a used Auto, Rem Mod 11, or 1100, maybe a Browning Auto 5. The auto system is very forgiving on recoil.

If they will only shoot a few times a year the import (Russian) Remington O-U will last a life time. But the recoil is more unforgiving. But still manageable.

If you drop to 20 ga. It’s downright enjoyable in an old mod. 11 build confidence, then build up to 12 ga. You never know what will happen in a young person’s future. Best o Luck.

 

[thunderchicken]

For what it's worth, as you probably already know gun fit is a major factor in shooting a shotgun well and for mitigating recoil.
If I were buying a shotgun for bothy wife and kids to shoot, I would be looking at a Beretta A300 reduced LOP with their kickoff system. Can be found for at or under $1k and has the built in recoil reduction system and comes with shims to adjust drop at comb as well as cast for a better fit.
It would probably stretch the budget but you might look at some of the offerings designed for ladies from Fabarm and Caesar Guirini. But those get pricey quick.
If you can find a Browning CX or CXS micro, those are fantastic guns. My daughter has the CXS micro and she absolutely loves that gun. You might reach out to Target Shotguns, Elite Shotguns, and Guns Unlimited they may still have a Browning in stock. If Guns Unlimited could do it (in reduced length) they have an exclusive Browning universal high post with adjustable comb, butt plate and rib that is a good deal.
Another option might be a Citori hunter with whatever barrel length they like and send the stock either up to Joe at Tronspace (in Michigan) or over to Rod at Rod's custom stocks (in Ohio) and have the stock shortened

My dad has a Citori hunter with 26"barrels that other than 1" in LOP has very similar dimensions as my daughters CXS micro.

For any clays gun I wouldn't bother with considering a 20g. A 12 will excellent on longer shots. The argument of a 20g having less recoil than a 12g is a myth.

 

[chef1231]

I agree with the 12 vs 20 recoil myth. The 300 is an option too.

 

[mcapo]

I recently bought one of these A300's. It feels lighter than its 6.75 pounds and the gun has very modest recoil and re-configuration options for fitment.

A300 Ultima Black Synthetic Shotgun | Beretta

The Beretta A300 Ultima Black Synthetic is a reliable and easy to handle shotgun that features a larger bolt handle and a reduced recoil system for stability.

www.beretta.com

 

[Creedmoor]

I tried to start my sons with a 20g Mossberg bantam pump. It was very unpleasant for my #1 son to shoot. So I shot it, it kicked like a 12g topper with a 3" slug. Sold it....
Im a huge believer in a firearm should fit the shooter, there was truly not a lot that were designed for kids and smaller adults then.
So I was off for a solution for my sons, I ended up buying two true 20g youth model
Remington 1187's. Adj buttstock up to 13" lop and a 21" barrel.
I bought a camo and a black one.
In todays world when they are home in the winter for duck and goose in the river blinds its usually windy and frigging cold.
Sweatshirts and artic carrharts are manditory. And with that a smaller firearm works well when its time to shoot.

 

[cg21]

Recoil eraser works good as does the generic 2 pack from Amazon I went with the Stevens 555 compact

 

[thunderchicken]

Another decent O/U option to check into might be SKB. I'm pretty sure they make a reduced/adjustable LOP option

 

[planedriver]

Choose a good gun and contact Cole fine guns and gunsmithing for fitting of a tsk adjustable stock.

TSK USA - Cole Fine Guns & Gunsmithing

Cole Fine Guns and Gunsmithing is the exclusive US distributor for TSK fully adjustable stocks. Use our TSK configurator to build your own!

colegun.com

 

[Elcidaviator]

I didn’t know about the 20ga myth. There’s discernible difference between my wife’s 20ga and any of my 12s. You can calculate the free recoil energy between the two and they are not the same.

12 ga - 23.2ft/lbs
20 ga - 15.4ft/lbs

If you want to check my math:

Winchter 12 ga, 1 1/8oz, 71/2 shot at 1200fps.

Herters 20ga, 7/8oz, 8 shot at 1200fps

The size shot does not matter, just the shot weight and velocity. Of course if you hand load, you can load down a 12ga to 20ga recoil, but you either need to give up velocity or shot weight.

Shotshell Energy

 

[Elcidaviator]

To the original question, my wife shoots a Berretta Silver Mallard and loves it. I’d suggest letting her and your kids go to a store and see what fits them best. When I do this, my wife never picks the rifle/pistol/shotgun I have in mind.

 

[cg21]

To the original question, my wife shoots a Berretta Silver Mallard and loves it. I’d suggest letting her and your kids go to a store and see what fits them best. When I do this, my wife never picks the rifle/pistol/shotgun I have in mind.

Do you tell her what you have in mind prior to going? If so I know what the problem is.

 

[Elcidaviator]

Do you tell her what you have in mind prior to going? If so I know what the problem is.

Sure don’t and she’s picked out some solid guns that I would have never thought she’d like. Walther PPQ, CZ Shadow 2, Springfield Hellcat, Sig Cross and a Christensen 6.5 PRC. The only one that she ever changed her mind about was the Christensen.

 

[Mongo59]

Franchi was making shotguns women could shoot and still like way before anyone else thought of it.

 

[thunderchicken]

I didn’t know about the 20ga myth. There’s discernible difference between my wife’s 20ga and any of my 12s. You can calculate the free recoil energy between the two and they are not the same.

12 ga - 23.2ft/lbs
20 ga - 15.4ft/lbs

If you want to check my math:

Winchter 12 ga, 1 1/8oz, 71/2 shot at 1200fps.

Herters 20ga, 7/8oz, 8 shot at 1200fps

The size shot does not matter, just the shot weight and velocity. Of course if you hand load, you can load down a 12ga to 20ga recoil, but you either need to give up velocity or shot weight.

Shotshell Energy

But what the math doesn't take into account is your 12g is almost guaranteed to be a heavier gun than the 20g. The heavier gun mitigates the extra recoil.
Anything a 20g can do, with the right loads a 12g can do better. Also in clays games a 12g rules the roost for good reasons such as being better for longer distance shot and the ability to send more soldiers down range to break the clay.

Now skeet being shorter range shots probably wouldn't make much difference.

 

[Elcidaviator]

But what the math doesn't take into account is your 12g is almost guaranteed to be a heavier gun than the 20g. The heavier gun mitigates the extra recoil.
Anything a 20g can do, with the right loads a 12g can do better. Also in clays games a 12g rules the roost for good reasons such as being better for longer distance shot and the ability to send more soldiers down range to break the clay.

Now skeet being shorter range shots probably wouldn't make much difference.

Rifle mass is taken into account. The equation is E=1/2 MV squared. With M being the mass of the rifle and V being the recoil velocity.

In the two loads I gave in example above, the 12ga would have to be approximately 50% heavier than the 20ga to equal the same felt recoil.

Play around with the weight of the rifle in the recoil calculator I linked.


I’m definitely not arguing that a 12ga will do the job better shooting clays. All I’m saying is I don’t believe in a myth that 12ga and 20ga have the same recoil. Can you make them equal if you hand load …yes. But like I stated above there are no free lunches, you either need to reduce velocity or reduce shot weight or increase the rifle weight (with less effect since it’s not squared in the equation).

 

[thunderchicken]

Rifle mass is taken into account. The equation is E=1/2 MV squared. With M being the mass of the rifle and V being the recoil velocity.

In the two loads I gave in example above, the 12ga would have to be approximately 50% heavier than the 20ga to equal the same felt recoil.

Play around with the weight of the rifle in the recoil calculator I linked.


I’m definitely not arguing that a 12ga will do the job better shooting clays. All I’m saying is I don’t believe in a myth that 12ga and 20ga have the same recoil. Can you make them equal if you hand load …yes. But like I stated above there are no free lunches, you either need to reduce velocity or reduce shot weight or increase the rifle weight (with less effect since it’s not squared in the equation).

I'm not going to sit and argue (not suggesting that's your intent either) about it.
I've known multiple kids who had a 20g and after shooting a 12g have claimed it had less recoil. My daughter is one of them that had that experience. The point is if you have a 1 oz load at 1200 fps the only real difference you will feel is from the difference in gun weight.
Also, online recoil calculators are about worthless. Recoil is perceived differently by each individual and how well the shotgun fits them, how they hold the gun etc. IMHO, unless the gun is to be carried all day in a field, why would anyone really even consider a 20g?

 

[Mongo59]

So, when I bought my brother a box of 3.5 inch 10ga shells that shoot 2oz of shot at 1350fps I should tell him it will kick like a 20ga?