Finally! Armed guards keep watch over church services

[techres]

From CNN, people are finally getting it:

Armed guards keep watch over church services

Basically, if you are gonna have large groups of targets in your care, have CCW or other armed gueards:

Lori Davis remembers a time when the doors were always open at her church -- and not guarded.

Relatives mourn after a gunman opened fire at a church meeting in Brookfield, Wisconsin, in 2005.

"No one thought twice about their safety. I guess we took it for granted," said Davis.

But things have changed. In an era when terrorism threats and deadly shootings at schools and churches have made headlines, religious leaders are rethinking their security strategies. Last Saturday, a minister was fatally shot and another man wounded outside of a church in Kentucky where the men went to attend a funeral.

Such violence has houses of worship evolving from the days of walkie-talkies and video surveillance to armed guards, who keep a watchful eye over worship services and church.

"We live in a sinful world and people do crazy and irrational things," said Davis, a member of the Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky.

Highview, like a number of other churches nationwide, has a volunteer security force consisting of at least one armed guard during any given worship service.

HOLD THE PHONE, IS THIS REALLY CNN?

"We realized that, as the largest Baptist church in Kentucky, we'd be a little naïve to think something would never happen to us," said Highview Pastor Randy Record, who is also a police officer. "We're catching up in an era of terrorism and a church is no different."

Many Highview worshippers say they are comforted by the fact that there is a focus on security.

"There are no safe places anymore. Something could happen to me in church just as easily as at home or in the grocery store," said Sheri Mock. "But I don't worry, because I feel secure in church with the program they have."

Gasping for breath....

"You have to take some of the incentive yourself. I don't think you walk down dark alleys in bad parts of town and say 'God will protect me,' " said Annis, who is also in charge of security at his parish, the Olive Drive Church in Bakersfield, California.

In states where people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, volunteers have become a cost-effective means of providing the security that some churches have come to rely on, Annis said.

The cow has jumped over the moon and Hades has frozen over... Oh wait, then they talk about LEO's over CCW, but that does not overly mute the first.

A must read for our times.

 

[NWI40cal]

+1 It's about time people started getting a grasp on reality again.

 

[bigcraig]

Hopefully this mindset will become popular, again.

 

[elaw555]

The cow has jumped over the moon and Hades has frozen over

Thought it was getting cold...

I have been carrying at church without anyone knowing for about 4 years.

 

[Vigilant]

Don't know about the Temples in the USA, but the Israeli's have long kept loaded weapons inside the doors of their houses of worship, but then they have been "switched on" for a lot longer than us. But is great to hear someone finally realizing the need.

 

[JimFloyd]

I obviously am not at liberty to go into detail, but I recently trained the security staff at a mega church in the Indianapolis area. They are all armed and provide church security and personal protective services to the pastor. It is much more common than people know about.

Regards,

Jim

 

[indykid]

I asked my minister if he minded if I carried into church. He just smiled and said "Thank you!"

 

[Bobby]

I obviously am not at liberty to go into detail, but I recently trained the security staff at a mega church in the Indianapolis area. They are all armed and provide church security and personal protective services to the pastor. It is much more common than people know about.

Regards,

Jim

Jim,
I am getting ready to apply for my lifetime LTCH and was interested having a gun during church services. Since my chuch has a private school on the premises, I was under the impression carrying a gun was illegal even though I would only like to carry during non-school hours such as on Sundays.

I understand you can't reveal specific details, however, could you tell me if this church has a school and if so how they got around the no guns on church/school property?

This past weekend we had an event on our church/school grounds that has really caused me to seriously comtemplate overall building security and if I, as a licensed private individual, could legally carry my gun on Sundays.

Thanks,
Bobby

 

[ryanmercer]

yay!

 

[JimFloyd]

Jim,
I am getting ready to apply for my lifetime LTCH and was interested having a gun during church services. Since my chuch has a private school on the premises, I was under the impression carrying a gun was illegal even though I would only like to carry during non-school hours such as on Sundays.

I understand you can't reveal specific details, however, could you tell me if this church has a school and if so how they got around the no guns on church/school property?

This past weekend we had an event on our church/school grounds that has really caused me to seriously comtemplate overall building security and if I, as a licensed private individual, could legally carry my gun on Sundays.

Thanks,
Bobby

I am not an attorney, don't play one on television, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... so, with that in mind...

A school and daycare, according to Indiana law can authorize you to carry a firearm for the execution of your official duties. So, for example, if you were appointed a church security officer by the board with written permission to carry as a part of your duties, it should be legal. (of course you would want to check with the church attorney to make sure).

Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

 

[Bobby]

Jim,
Thanks for the reply.

Bobby

 

[JimFloyd]

My pleasure!

Regards,

Jim

 

[JimFloyd]

Here are the Indiana child care institution laws pertaining to firearms:

CHILD CARE INSTITUTIONS

465 IAC 2-9-80
Maintenance and safety
Authority: IC 12-13-5-3
Affected: IC 12-17.4
Sec. 80. (a) The buildings and premises of each child caring institution shall at all times be maintained in a clean, safe, and sanitary condition and in a good state of repair.
(b) The child caring institution shall maintain the following safety precautions:
(1) Keep poisons and harmful chemicals under lock.
(2) Store other hazardous materials and equipment including cleaning supplies, polishes, bleaches, detergents, matches, and
tools in a place locked to children.
(3) Prohibit the storage and use of firearms on the property.
(4) Provide adult supervision whenever power equipment is being used by children.
(5) Maintain or repair outdoor play space and grounds of the child caring institution and keep free from observable hazards.
(c) A person holding at least a Red Cross advanced life saving certificate, or YMCA equivalent, shall be on duty at all times when a swimming pool or other swimming area is in use. A minimum of two (2) flotation lifesaving devices shall be provided for each pool or swimming area. (Department of Child Services; 465 IAC 2-9-80; filed Jun 27, 1991, 12:00 p.m.: 14 IR 1978; readopted filed Jul 12, 2001, 1:40 p.m.: 24 IR 4235; readopted filed Nov 27, 2007, 6:52 a.m.: 20071226-IR-465070551RFA) NOTE:
Transferred from the Division of Family Resources (470 IAC 3-11-80) to the Department of Child Services (465 IAC 2-9-80) by P.L.234-2005, SECTION 195, effective July 1, 2005.


470 IAC 3-4.7-19
Posted items
Authority: IC 12-13-5-3
Affected: IC 12-17.2-4
Sec. 19. (a) The following items shall be prominently posted in a place regularly viewed by parents:
(1) The license.
(2) The name of the director and name of the person in charge in the director's absence.
(3) A child/staff ratio chart.
(4) Weekly menus.
(5) Prohibitions against:
(A) smoking;
(B) use of alcohol;
(C) use or possession of firearms, unless required as a condition of employment; and
(D) use or possession of illegal substances or unauthorized potentially toxic substances;
in the child care center.
(6) The telephone number of the division's licensing office.
(b) The center shall post the following items:
(1) Hand washing procedures at each adult sink area.
(2) Diaper changing procedures at each diaper changing area.
(3) A copy of infant feeding plans in each infant room.
(4) Procedures for bottle sterilization, where this occurs.
(5) Fire and emergency disaster routes in each child care room.
(6) Disaster and shelter procedures in each child care room.
(7) Dish washing procedures, where this occurs.
(8) Instructions for mixing and use of sanitizing solutions for cots, tables, toys, dish washing, and diaper changing areas, where the solution is prepared.
(9) Approved first aid directives in each child care area.
(10) Cleaning schedules in all food storage, preparation, and service areas.
(c) Staff shall post by the telephone the name and address of the child care center and a list of emergency telephone numbers as follows:
(1) Fire department.
(2) Police department.
(3) Ambulance.
(4) Nearest hospital.
(5) Poison control.
(6) The county child protective services number, 1-800-800-5556.
(7) The institutional abuse hotline number, 1-800-562-2407.
(8) The child care information line, 1-877-511-1144.
(Division of Family Resources; 470 IAC 3-4.7-19; filed Aug 11, 2003, 3:00 p.m.: 27 IR 124; errata filed Nov 7, 2003, 2:45 p.m.: 27
IR 1184; readopted filed Oct 24, 2007, 11:25 a.m.: 20071121-IR-470070448RFA)

 

[agentl074]

I am not an attorney, don't play one on television, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... so, with that in mind...

A school and daycare, according to Indiana law can authorize you to carry a firearm for the execution of your official duties. So, for example, if you were appointed a church security officer by the board with written permission to carry as a part of your duties, it should be legal. (of course you would want to check with the church attorney to make sure).

Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses
IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

Yup - even permitted agents of a school can carry in execution of their duty.

 

[Scout]

"There are no safe places anymore. Something could happen to me in church just as easily as at home or in the grocery store," said Sheri Mock. "But I don't worry, because I feel secure in church with the program they have."

Does she really expect that someone else will protect her all the time?

In states where people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, volunteers have become a cost-effective means of providing the security that some churches have come to rely on, Annis said.[/quote]How does that go again? A well armed and regulated militia...
[/quote]