FBI Ammunition Test Protocol Scores

[cosermann]

Does anyone know if the results/performance data resulting from the FBI's testing of ammunition using their own ammunition test protocol* are readily available online anywhere?

One would think they would be, but I've been unable to find a source so far.

* - (i.e. involving test shots into ballistic gelatin, through various barriers, with the resulting measurements combined into a point score for each load)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I believe the only way to get a copy is to request it through "official" channels for "official only" use, like for departments trying to select a duty load without testing on their own. If you are seeing them, it's very likely either you are under an NDA or the person showing them to you is violating an NDA, so while I'm not saying they aren't online I think they'll be tougher to find then just a Google search.

 

[Fiddle]

The FBI’s Test Info
If you want to see the FBI’s testing data on police-duty ammunition, order it from the agency’s test facility. Your order must be on official letterhead and come from a department supervisor.

FBI Ammunition Test Facility
Quantico, VA
Tel. 703/640-1386

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I am always impressed by the broad base of ingos knowledge pool.

 

[cosermann]

Thx everyone. Yes, it seems, after a bit of poking around, that this data is only shared in a fairly controlled manner (ex. with LE agencies and such).

 

[DadSmith]

As a hunter I know Hornady XTP bullets expand well and do a great job on deer. But in ballistic gel they don't do so well or as well as other hollowpoint bullets. So there is that to consider also. I kind of wonder if ballistic gel is actually the best test medium? Maybe they should use pork like Paul Harrell does.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

As a hunter I know Hornady XTP bullets expand well and do a great job on deer. But in ballistic gel they don't do so well or as well as other hollowpoint bullets. So there is that to consider also. I kind of wonder if ballistic gel is actually the best test medium? Maybe they should use pork like Paul Harrell does.

How do you "calibrate" pork? How do you verify the integrity of your testing from round to round?

Ballistic gel (the "real" one, not clear gel) and the entirety of the FBI protocols has a very strong correlation with real world results. Bullets that pass the entirety have done very well on the street. Bullets that don't, less so. That doesn't mean they are useless, just that they will (across a wide number of shootings) not perform as well in all situations. A bullet that fails the auto glass test may be just as good as one that passed if it's a soft tissue only hit, for example.

 

[DadSmith]

How do you "calibrate" pork? How do you verify the integrity of your testing from round to round?

Ballistic gel (the "real" one, not clear gel) and the entirety of the FBI protocols has a very strong correlation with real world results. Bullets that pass the entirety have done very well on the street. Bullets that don't, less so. That doesn't mean they are useless, just that they will (across a wide number of shootings) not perform as well in all situations. A bullet that fails the auto glass test may be just as good as one that passed if it's a soft tissue only hit, for example.

So hunting bullets don't always work when going through glass or drywall?

Unintentionally deleted my post was trying to edit it with this video hit the wrong button not paying attention.

 

[dudley0]

I just trust the Doc and his findings.

Not sure how new the list is but it is out there. Not the FBI stuff, but taken from that as well as OIS.

DocGKR

 

[DadSmith]

Hornady® Awarded FBI 9mm+P Service Ammunition Contract - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.

Grand Island, NE – Critical Duty® 9mm+P is the new handgun service ammunition of the FBI. Hornady® has been awarded a Fixed Price Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement with the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its 9mm+P Luger 135...

press.hornady.com

So bullets like these are good to go for most situations?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So hunting bullets don't always work when going through glass or drywall?

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. I mean, no bullet *always* works, just some have a lot better chance than others. If a "hunting bullet" is something like a soft lead ball round that's made to expand via deformation of the lead at relatively low velocity, it will probably do just fine in it's element but will suck at barriers. It will deform, and likely fragment, too early and the reduced mass with increased surface area will not penetrate as well. Deer are typically not behind barriers, of course. Often overlooked is that humans are bipedal and in a gun fight are typically blocking much of their "best shot placement" areas with their arms and/or their own gun. We tend to think of barriers in terms of walls, but the meat and bone in your forearm is also a barrier if the bullet hits that before entering your chest. That hit isn't meaningless, but it's less likely to be a mechanical stopper.

Auto glass testing is (obviously) relevant to shooting into/out of cars but has the side benefit of being an excellent predictor of reaction to heavy bone strikes, say hitting a human femur.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hornady® Awarded FBI 9mm+P Service Ammunition Contract - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.

Grand Island, NE – Critical Duty® 9mm+P is the new handgun service ammunition of the FBI. Hornady® has been awarded a Fixed Price Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement with the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its 9mm+P Luger 135...

press.hornady.com

So bullets like these are good to go for most situations?

I don't know how to edit in multi-quotes, and you posted that after I posted above, but yes. A given load that passes the entirety of the protocols gives you the best odds of the bullet performing as expected across the widest number of scenarios. It is likely not the best for certain niche uses, like defeating armor, but niches are niches for a reason and niche bullets tend to not do as well outside their given purpose.

 

[DadSmith]

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. I mean, no bullet *always* works, just some have a lot better chance than others. If a "hunting bullet" is something like a soft lead ball round that's made to expand via deformation of the lead at relatively low velocity, it will probably do just fine in it's element but will suck at barriers. It will deform, and likely fragment, too early and the reduced mass with increased surface area will not penetrate as well. Deer are typically not behind barriers, of course. Often overlooked is that humans are bipedal and in a gun fight are typically blocking much of their "best shot placement" areas with their arms and/or their own gun. We tend to think of barriers in terms of walls, but the meat and bone in your forearm is also a barrier if the bullet hits that before entering your chest. That hit isn't meaningless, but it's less likely to be a mechanical stopper.

Auto glass testing is (obviously) relevant to shooting into/out of cars but has the side benefit of being an excellent predictor of reaction to heavy bone strikes, say hitting a human femur.

Never thought of barriers that way but definitely makes sense. I figured about the only barriers I'll have to deal with would be walls and doors. This very insightful thanks BBI.

 

[KLB]

There are websites out there with test results for a lot of ammo. Here are two.

Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data

Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.

www.luckygunner.com

The Best Self Defense Ammo - Interactive Ballistics Data Table

Need to know what the best self defense ammo is? Our interactive ballistics table has the information you need to make the right decision.

www.ammunitiontogo.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Never thought of barriers that way but definitely makes sense. I figured about the only barriers I'll have to deal with would be walls and doors. This very insightful thanks BBI.

Like I said, it's pretty often overlooked. I doubt I would have starting thinking in those terms if I hadn't had the opportunity to work so many people shot cases and start seeing the results. Then it became fairly obvious.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There are websites out there with test results for a lot of ammo. Here are two.

Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data

Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.

www.luckygunner.com

The Best Self Defense Ammo - Interactive Ballistics Data Table

Need to know what the best self defense ammo is? Our interactive ballistics table has the information you need to make the right decision.

www.ammunitiontogo.com

I would just caution putting much emphasis on clear gel results. It has not shown the same correlation to real world results as "real" ballistic/ordinance gel. It's very popular due to the economics of both cost and ease of use, but the results are less valid.

 

[KLB]

I would just caution putting much emphasis on clear gel results. It has not shown the same correlation to real world results as "real" ballistic/ordinance gel. It's very popular due to the economics of both cost and ease of use, but the results are less valid.

Didn't some wise fellow around here state to use one of the good self defense ammos(Gold Dots, HSTs, etc), and you should be good?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Didn't some wise fellow around here state to use one of the good self defense ammos(Gold Dots, HSTs, etc), and you should be good?

With a few caveats, yup. Any common duty caliber, that's the way to roll. Where it may break down a little bit is mouse gun calibers. You may be better off going with a hard cast non-expanding round once you get into those.

 

[KLB]

With a few caveats, yup. Any common duty caliber, that's the way to roll. Where it may break down a little bit is mouse gun calibers. You may be better off going with a hard cast non-expanding round once you get into those.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add the caliber caveat.

Thanks for sharing your insights with us!

 

[BE Mike]

I take all of the tests with a grain of salt. I can remember way, way back when H.P White Laboratories recommended the 110 gr. "Controlled Expansion" +P+ load in .38 SPL. It turned out to be a huge failure in actual circumstances. There is no "magic bullet" out there and no handgun cartridge is 100%. A lot depends upon the threat's state of mind, body build, physical stamina and of the defender's ability to make good bullet placement. True, large game, handgun hunters probably have a good idea as to what works and doesn't. The best of them have honed their marksmanship skills, too. There are plenty of adequate cartridges out there for self defense and some of them aren't produced by the factories.