Body Armor for SHTF situations

[DarkLight]

I'm not sure if this has been covered before or not, if it has I apologize for not seeing it.

This is really more of a personal question than anything else. I've been long thinking of getting some body armor for a variety of SHTF possibilities. Also, I long decided that I wanted steel inserts instead of the now very common/popular ceramics. The reason for this is the fact the steel can take many more multiple hits than ceramic. If it is the end of the world chances are I can't change out plates after every engagement, thus I want steel.

Here is my problem/question: I have been searching like crazy but I have never seen NIJ level IV STEEL Plates for sale, anywhere. Do they exist? Are they super rare in this day and age? I can find ceramics everywhere in the level IV range, I can find NIJ III steel, but I can't find NIJ IV Steel.

 

[cosermann]

I haven't seen level IV steel rifle plates around either, although I'm sure they exist (or existed).

I'm guessing they're not all that common (anymore?) due to their weight (and the availability of significantly lighter ceramic alternatives at around 8 lbs for a 10x12 ceramic level IV plate).

Level III ballistic steel plates are 1/4" thick (6mm - approx 8-9 lbs for a single 10x12 plate), while level IV ballistic steel is 1/2" thick (12mm - approx 16-18 lbs for a single 10x12 plate), thus TWICE the weight of ceramic level IV.

Imagine humping around 32-36 lbs of just level IV steel rifle plates (1 front, 1 back), not to mention the rest of your gear. That's the kind of weight that really starts to slow you down (and/or really limits whatever else you might want/need to carry).

There are some multi-shot ceramic products out there. Not sure how well they hold up though.

 

[joe138]

Try bullet proof me. com. They have steel rifle plates.

 

[SavageEagle]

So kevlar is no longer the standard for body armor these days?

 

[Shay]

So kevlar is no longer the standard for body armor these days?

Not for rifle-rated armor.

 

[SavageEagle]

Not for rifle-rated armor.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance on the subject as body armor isn't something I've looked into yet. But what about DragonSkin armor? Is that available to the public? I know it can take 308 rounds point blank.

 

[DarkLight]

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a fair amount of time ago, the company that makes/distributes dragon skin would not sell to non-law enforcement/military personnel.

Plus it was around the $4,000 range.

 

[RichardR]

I keep both hard & soft body armor on hand for emergencies, I can wear the hard armor with my soft body armor so depending on the amount of time I have or the amount of protection that I think I'll need I can gear up accordingly.

One thing though, make sure that you regularly train while wearing your armor, don't expect just to slap it on & go be Billy Badask, cause it really changes the way you move & maneuver, especially in tight quarters/narrow door ways, also you can easily get "hung up" when you go to shoulder your rifle/shotgun, etc if you are not intimately familiar with your gear.

 

[SavageEagle]

Last time I checked, which admittedly was a fair amount of time ago, the company that makes/distributes dragon skin would not sell to non-law enforcement/military personnel.

Plus it was around the $4,000 range.

For Dragon Skin, I'd pay it.

 

[AR Maker]

IMO one of the keys to SHTF survival would be blending in and not drawing atttention to yourself. Dont look like you have something that the zombie hords want. Concealable body armor probably, full combat load out not likely for me.

 

[RichardR]

IMO one of the keys to SHTF survival would be blending in and not drawing atttention to yourself. Dont look like you have something that the zombie hords want. Concealable body armor probably, full combat load out not likely for me.

I agree for the most part AR Maker, bugging out on foot wearing full battle regalia probably isn't the best idea, it would attract a lot of attention & most of it would probably be unwanted attention.

However if there is rioting in or around your neighborhood & you are planning on staying put to defend your homestead (or in any emergency situation in which incoming fire could be likely), wearing a full-fledged plate carrier would probably be wise.

Post-SHTF emergency/ambulatory services would most likely be delayed or even non-existent for the duration of the crisis & body armor will help reduce the risk of serious injury or death, so it's definitely something I think folks should seriously consider adding to their preps.

 

[Shay]

For Dragon Skin, I'd pay it.

Why? Because you read an article online about how nifty it is?

Dragon Skin is hyped up vaporware. The manufacturer created an innovative product that still has some serious flaws. The whole conspiracy theory surrounding it not being chosen at the hard armor trials is laughable.

Wear hard armor for a day and report back. Better yet, wear a full loadout and run around for 30 minutes. It might open your eyes to the opportunity cost of wearing armor.

If you aren't going to seriously train in it (check out Wetsu's AAR threads for his groups training as examples), don't think you will throw on heavy armor and a ton of gear and perform well.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Steel plate body armor for SHTF? Will you be wearing it while carrying your 120 pound battle load?

Call me stupid, but I thought you wear plate armor when you have no other choice. It's sure going to slow you down a lot. I'd opt for the kevelar helmet rather than steel pot otherwise one good headshot and someone else will have some spiffy tactikewl body armor.

 

[jeremy]

2 things I would like to throw out here...

1.) Steel Plates might stop more rounds, but are more likely to kill you also. You might want to consider these terms, Spalling and Blunt Force Trauma...

2.) Dragon Skin sucks big time. There are so many flaws with it to be almost insane. If you are looking into wearing this junk I hope you are going to be someplace were temps do not get over 75*F. Cause the Armor itself will kill you if you wear it properly...

 

[DarkLight]

I agree for the most part AR Maker, bugging out on foot wearing full battle regalia probably isn't the best idea, it would attract a lot of attention & most of it would probably be unwanted attention.

However if there is rioting in or around your neighborhood & you are planning on staying put to defend your homestead (or in any emergency situation in which incoming fire could be likely), wearing a full-fledged plate carrier would probably be wise.

Post-SHTF emergency/ambulatory services would most likely be delayed or even non-existent for the duration of the crisis & body armor will help reduce the risk of serious injury or death, so it's definitely something I think folks should seriously consider adding to their preps.

This is pretty much the way I see it too.

I'm not so worried about lugging around 140 lbs of gear and adding 16+ lbs of body armor to it. Chances are if I am moving it is either by vehicle (if they still work) or on foot. If I'm on foot then chances are I'm not worried about getting some place fast, but getting their alive, which means slow well planned movements probably hiding as much as possible, not marching down the road with heavy packs.

More likely than any of that though, is simply hunkering down, during and post SHTF initial event. I want armor because I do not trust my life to the foolish belief that I will always see the BG's before they see me, have superior range/accuracy/firepower than them, and/or be a better fighter. Also I want steel because of its endurance and non-shelf life.

 

[DarkLight]

2 things I would like to throw out here...

1.) Steel Plates might stop more rounds, but are more likely to kill you also. You might want to consider these terms, Spalling and Blunt Force Trauma...

2.) Dragon Skin sucks big time. There are so many flaws with it to be almost insane. If you are looking into wearing this junk I hope you are going to be someplace were temps do not get over 75*F. Cause the Armor itself will kill you if you wear it properly...

I've heard this about Dragon Skin, but to my knowledge they have never released the actual data from the army's testing phase. Because to my knowledge the makers of Dragon Skin have refuted these claims.

If it is a true, SHTF scenario, not just 1 day of riots then restoration of peace; then I am willing to risk the increased possibility of deflected bullets and bits from a full mag. Because the composite alternative is to be fine with 2-3 hits and then take the rest of the mag in the chest cavity.

 

[SavageEagle]

Why? Because you read an article online about how nifty it is?

Dragon Skin is hyped up vaporware. The manufacturer created an innovative product that still has some serious flaws. The whole conspiracy theory surrounding it not being chosen at the hard armor trials is laughable.

Wear hard armor for a day and report back. Better yet, wear a full loadout and run around for 30 minutes. It might open your eyes to the opportunity cost of wearing armor.

If you aren't going to seriously train in it (check out Wetsu's AAR threads for his groups training as examples), don't think you will throw on heavy armor and a ton of gear and perform well.

I'd like to know more about these serious flaws. So far I don't remember reading anything horribly wrong with these vests so if you got some reading material about it I'd like to see it. I'm not calling you guys liars, it's just I haven't read bad about it.

Also, I don't plan on bugging out with a vest, chest rig, full pack, M16, grenade launcher, battle helmet, BDUs, tank, etc.

I would like to have body armor in the future for AFTER SHTF. For when I'm meeting a group of people that probably have more people than my little group of people. Or if I have to go to a barter meeting to trade what I got for things I need. Or if someone shows up to where I am looking to take what I got. Someone of my size and stature would be out of their mind thinking they could walk around in some kind of commando dress and be ok.

So maybe next time instead of just assuming whatever little thought pops into your head is what someone is thinking, you'll either just answer the question or talk to the person like normal instead of acting all high and mighty like.... never mind.

 

[RichardR]

I'd like to know more about these serious flaws. So far I don't remember reading anything horribly wrong with these vests so if you got some reading material about it I'd like to see it. I'm not calling you guys liars, it's just I haven't read bad about it.

From what I understand during testing it was found that a combination of hot humid weather &/or the wearers perspiration causes the adhesive holding the scales together and in their proper place to soften.

Once the adhesive softens, the scales shift out of place, effectively ruining the armor.

 

[The Meach]

First point is. Don't get shot. Don't put yourself in a situation to get shot. And engineer the circumstances around you so you Don't get shot.

But beyond that. When it comes to rioting, Massive civil dis-obeisance, War, invasion, or Alien invasion Dressing as an authority figure would or just plain not matching the social norm is a BAD idea.

I'm not saying don't wear protective clothing. Just dressing up like Master chief to protect you from bullets is going to do the opposite and turn you into a bullet magnet.

Heavy durable clothing (stuff the wont tear and will protect your skin if you go skidding across the pavement or fall down a hill) Concealable Kevlar vests, Rugby vests, shin guards, Thigh and groin protectors, "Armored" Motorcycle jackets. All these things can either be easily concealed or won't make you stand out in public. And with some ingenuity can be altered or upgraded to preform the same function as all this "battle ready" stuff y'all are talking about.

 

[RichardR]

First point is. Don't get shot. Don't put yourself in a situation to get shot. And engineer the circumstances around you so you Don't get shot.

Unless their home is a blast doored, windowless reinforced concrete bunker I don't see how a homeowner can effectively defend their homestead from rioters/looters without exposing themselves to some risk.

But beyond that. When it comes to rioting, Massive civil dis-obeisance, War, invasion, or Alien invasion Dressing as an authority figure would or just plain not matching the social norm is a BAD idea.

Agreed, however for a homeowner who is actively defending their home, this might actually add a huge deterrence factor.

I'm not saying don't wear protective clothing. Just dressing up like Master chief to protect you from bullets is going to do the opposite and turn you into a bullet magnet.

If we are talking about "walking down the street" then I have to agree, if we are talking about defending your own home then I have to disagree.

Heavy durable clothing (stuff the wont tear and will protect your skin if you go skidding across the pavement or fall down a hill) Concealable Kevlar vests, Rugby vests, shin guards, Thigh and groin protectors, "Armored" Motorcycle jackets.

Well that sort of armor is definitely better than simply wearing a t-shirt in a melee type combat but none of those are very effective protection to wear in a firefight.

All these things can either be easily concealed or won't make you stand out in public.

Yea but in order for that stuff to be effective you pretty much have to gear up like you just walked off a "Mad Max" movie set & that would undoubtedly draw attention.

And with some ingenuity can be altered or upgraded to preform the same function as all this "battle ready" stuff y'all are talking about.

I don't think randomly tossing on some rugby armor & an armored motorcycle jacket could even come remotely close to the ballistic protection & over-all utility of plate carrier.