Big Three Auto Execs Flew in Luxury Jets to Seek Multibillion-Dollar Bailout

[USMC_0311]

FOXNews.com - Big Three Auto Execs Flew in Luxury Jets to Seek Multibillion-Dollar Bailout - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Ok whats everyone thoughts on this one. Really don't we have enough cars already? I am from a ghost GM town and personally would just rather just let them fail. So a couple of dealerships close I can't afford to buy one anyway. The audacity of these executives to ask for our tax money and then spend 20,000 on a private jet to do it. They couldn't just buy a ticket and ride coach? Times are tough and I feel it just like most people but the system needs an overhaul.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I like how they claim its "about security". Who would want to go after them, let alone RECOGNIZE them?

More fat cat crap from both ends. I am suprised the Unions havent been jumping up and down in Congress for the bailout to continue a campaign against "stream lining". Too much fat and no one really knows where to start the cutting...

 

[Clay]

From what Ive read and put together, its best that they dont get any of the bail out money, as this will force them to make changes for the long haul, and make things better in the future. With bailout money, things continue on as they are, over spending, etc, and they fail anyway.

 

[Pami]

They're not talking about closing "just a couple of dealerships," though. They're saying 3 million jobs -- that means closing factories if their trucks don't start selling. With gas prices going down (and hopefully staying down...?), maybe they'll see the sales pick up again, but I think people are too unsure of the economy to go right back out and start buying cars and trucks again.

In any case, I'm with you... it was pretty stupid of the execs to arrive in private jets and then say, "Hey, we're going to collapse here if you don't help us." But that sums up how I've felt about any bailout since day one, too.

 

[CarmelHP]

Let them file Chapter 11 first, so they have the freedom to reorganize. After the filing, if Congress wants to give a loan to help them emerge, that's better than handing them billions to hemorrhage away.

 

[OneBadV8]

Personally, it would be better if they had to file Chapter 11 because then they could really change everything and renegotiate all their labor contracts which is definately hurting them. I read an article that called the UAW a glorified Welfare system. I think the Union contract will need to be renegotiated. Their union employees get payed almost twice as much as workers at the American Toyota and Honda plants.

Just my

 

[Disposable Heart]

Realistically, I think everyone knows it wont be just the dealerships. However, for these bloated gasbags to go infront of Congress and hold a gun to the economic future's head and claim that they will falter and take the US with it is disgusting. They are trying to threaten the US with thier mismanagement so they can continue to live their swanky lifestyles.

Also, the union situation where people are WAY overpaid (sorry to any union folks here) for their tasks is strange to me. Toyota and Honda USA are paying great wages and awesome benefits. Why are American companies exempt from runnning a tight ship instead of skyrocketing wages and hemmoraging money.

 

[USMC_0311]

I think if they get a bailout then we are trully on our way to socialism. I have seen what GM can do when they shut down factories. Take a look at Anderson the factories are being bull dozed as we speak. Times have been tough here but we are slowly recovering. They will close and move these factories regardless if they get a bailout. It is a dinasour industry even if gas prices stay low getting the credit for a lot of people will be damn near impossible.

 

[Vigilant]

Chapter 11 will only kill the smaller subsidiary supplier factories, because they will not get paid full price for invoices they have billed. So again, more people out of jobs who are most likely NOT on UAW wages. MAKE the UAW accept a cut in pay and bennies, make the execs take a cut in pay and bennies, MAKE them run a friggin business like it's supposed to be run! Deliver high quality products that people can AFFORD to buy. The unions have become more of a drain on the U.S. economy than a help to the workers. if you have ever been to a union shop, you see not a lot getting done by half the people being paid FULL salary.

 

[USMC_0311]

The unions have become more of a drain on the U.S. economy than a help to the workers. if you have ever been to a union shop, you see not a lot getting done by half the people being paid FULL salary.

I agree with this. I watched my dad for 30 years go to work at 6:00 am run his parts and be in the bar by 8:00 am. One of his buddies would come in to the bar about 6:00 pm and tell him that they clocked him out with overtime. This was common at every plant. I had an uncle that had a cot setup so when he got to work he could sleep. He worked 3rd shift, get off work then go work in his own business. The corruption his unbeilivable.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I work for GM and I'll gladly trade my wages and benefits for those of any US Senator. The Big 3 are the new media whipping boy. Big Oil slipped out of the wood shed while focus was on the elections. The misinformation I'm hearing from FOX, MSNBC, and CNN is beyond belief.

Everyone acts like it is 1975. I keep hearing they need to restructure. We have been doing that for the the last 16 years.

All of the plants that were GM owned that makes parts for GM are now spun off and not GM plants.
We have went from over 300,000 employees to around 50,000. We have closed many plants trying to become lean.
The last 3 UAW Contracts have been filled with concessions and give backs to the Company.
New hires now make a whopping $14 an hour with next to no benefits.
GM makes more models that get 30+MPG than any other manufacturer.
Our costs are higher than the Foreign Implants because they have not been in Country long enough to have anyone on retirement.
The Government wants us to build smaller more fuel efficient cars, but the truth is those don't sell well. We sell more Trucks, SUVs, and Full size cars than anything else. We also make more money per vehicle on the larger versions. The media acts like they have a clue but in reality they don't. The average American doesn't know any better so they believe what they hear.
This credit crisis was caused by Congress and it has affected all sectors of business. Everyone keeps saying BAILOUT when it is just a loan. If it comes with restrictions, such as lower emissions and better MPG then we might just be done. We could get really good MPG if we took the power robbing emission crap off of our vehicles.
This is another form of class warfare. "They make $78 an hour. That is why the cars cost so much."
We have so much automation that our labor cost are about 10% of the cost of the vehicle.
We have several new vehicles in the pipeline that are now on hold. Some of these will be big sellers. GM quality has increased drastically over the last 5 years and we are shedding that stigma we had when we were more interested in quantity and not quality. While I'm not a fan of using taxpayers money, I think in this case, like with Chrysler in that past, the Government could stand to make some good money on the deal.

 

[indyjoe]

There will be many people with jobs either now or in a year or two. The difference is only time. I see bailing them out, like feeding the whims of a spoiled child. The child will continue to cry, if each time their needs are met. Our economy is hurting. Why? Because we spend more than we can afford. There will be belt tightening. People will lose jobs. Bailing out the auto companies will only prolong things.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I agree with this. I watched my dad for 30 years go to work at 6:00 am run his parts and be in the bar by 8:00 am. One of his buddies would come in to the bar about 6:00 pm and tell him that they clocked him out with overtime. This was common at every plant. I had an uncle that had a cot setup so when he got to work he could sleep. He worked 3rd shift, get off work then go work in his own business. The corruption his unbeilivable.

Yes that stuff did happen. Not anymore. All we have left are Assembly Plants and the lines run from start of shift till end of shift. No sitting around or leaving early.

 

[spasmo]

What exactly happens to the pension of these GM people that have retired and are living on that? If they become creditors, how much money would they receive? I don't know how it works. My mother is living off of GM pension and SS right now. She's in a nursing facility that costs twice as much as she brings in a month. As it is, the stock market is killing her account that the extra money is taken out of to pay for her nursing facility. Her next stop is medicaid which completely sucks because she'll be put into an actual state funded nursing home.

From the email I'm getting from GM, they are claiming they just want a loan and not to actually be bailed out. They want to pay the money back.

As to the planes, in some cases, it is actually cheaper to have your own corporate plane. If there are groups of people that travel together a lot and go to the same destination, it is sometimes cheaper. I know that was the case when I worked at General Dynamics. Don't know if that is the case here.

 

[BloodEclipse]

What exactly happens to the pension of these GM people that have retired and are living on that? If they become creditors, how much money would they receive? I don't know how it works. My mother is living off of GM pension and SS right now. She's in a nursing facility that costs twice as much as she brings in a month. As it is, the stock market is killing her account that the extra money is taken out of to pay for her nursing facility. Her next stop is medicaid which completely sucks because she'll be put into an actual state funded nursing home.

From the email I'm getting from GM, they are claiming they just want a loan and not to actually be bailed out. They want to pay the money back.

As to the planes, in some cases, it is actually cheaper to have your own corporate plane. If there are groups of people that travel together a lot and go to the same destination, it is sometimes cheaper. I know that was the case when I worked at General Dynamics. Don't know if that is the case here.

Was she an hourly or salary employee? Salary employees on retirement just had their health care benefits dropped. If GM goes into bankruptcy they will be able to shed all the pensions and the health care for the remaining hourly workers. When they lose the GM pension they will get dumped into the government pension program and the taxpayer will be on the hook for it. That money will be less then what they are currently getting so less money for the economy. This doesn't just affect GM workers and dealers. The ramifications of this in communities would be devastating.

 

[USMC_0311]

Yes that stuff did happen. Not anymore. All we have left are Assembly Plants and the lines run from start of shift till end of shift. No sitting around or leaving early.

I have 2 cousins now that got to keep their GM jobs by moving to other cities. One of them is on "sick leave" has been for a year now. There is nothing wrong with him and he will tell you that. The union is corrupted and way to powerful. I don't know what the answer is but giving them my tax money leaves a bad test in my mouth.
I don't want anyone to lose their job, I work in the mortgage industry and not a day goes by that I wonder if its my last. I have seen many lose thier jobs. Lucky for me the owners of my company had the foresite not to write crap loans. They didn't jump on the no money down, interest only, or ARM loans. Our company will not see a dime of the bailout. Like I said I don't have any answers but I have to wonder if we just let these business fail would it better in the long run.

 

[elaw555]

Look at the Airline industry...how many times have United, Delta, US Airways, etc. filed for Ch. 11? The big three will file for CH. 11 not have to pay debts, get further concessions from their workers and come out not having changed alot, but the execs will make more of a profit, while the workers will get less pay, benefits, etc. That is how it always happens.

 

[TRWXXA]

For the record, I'd like to say that I don't like the inflated salaries and platinum parachute deals these CEOs get. The common shareholders should line the boards of directors up against a wall and shoot them for approving these deals.

I'm really not happy with FNC using a liberal media tactic to sensationalize this "private jet scandal". The average "Joe The Plumber" American has no idea how corporate aviation works, and FNC is taking advantage of that ignorance.

First, I'm sure the "Big 3" CEOs had no idea how long they were going to sit before the congressional committee (fiscal geniuses those congressmen are ), so they would have had no clue what airline ticket they'd need to buy. For all they knew, they could have had to return the following day for more inane questioning. A corporate jet allows the CEOs to arrive when they need to, and depart whenever they need to -- that's why corporations have corporate jets.

I'm an airline pilot by trade, and I can tell you that modern airline travel is a mind-numbing, teeth-grinding, back-breaking seige -- and that's in first class! If I was the CEO of a large corporation I'd have a corporate jet in a heartbeat. When I travel for work (deadheading) I have to devote a minimum of 5 hours, just for regional, domestic travel. If you break it down, those CEOs make about $15,000 to $30,000 per hour (whether you like it, or not)! Do you really want them sitting in an airport terminal for 3 hours waiting for the next commercial flight?

If you want to get outraged, look into how the unions' executives travel.



No, the "Big 3" should not a get federal bailout. What needs to be done is:

1. Let them file Chapter 11 (or 7, or whatever it is), renegotiate contracts and reorganize. Bankruptcy does not mean the company is going to go under.

2. Tell the unions to take a hike. The average UAW worker (with nothing but a high school diploma) costs about $75/hour! If only half of that is actual wages, that's still $78,000/year/worker. That's over 50% than the average Japanese auto worker, and the average college professor with a PhD. Maybe, long ago, a welder on the assembly line was a skilled worker, but now the "welders" simply put the parts in the jigs for the robots to weld. I could probably train my cat to do that.

3. Tell the federal government to take a hike. Un-funded safety mandates, and unrealistic CAFE requirements FORCE the auto manufacturers to spend a lot of money to make vehicles they can't sell. IIRC, Ford was forced to produce about 6 Focuses for every F150 to meet federal mandates. The consumers don't want to buy Ford Focuses, they want Ford trucks. So consequently Ford loses about $3K for every Focus they make.

Yep. People are going to lose jobs. These people need to get off their @sses and go get another job. I hear there are 20,000 jobs available in the coal-to-oil industry. But the hardcore union workers would rather sit around Detroit or Cleveland and whine about the job they once had, rather than move to Montana and get another one.




Sorry... Just had to rant.

 

[spasmo]

In order to get rid of a union, doesn't the company have to close down completely and then re-open? Or can the people just vote out the union? If my dad were still alive, he'd be able to tell me all of this. It is his pension actually that my mother is living off of. Her pension wasn't nearly as much as his. He spent over 30 years at GM in Anderson. I can't remember how long exactly but I know he was out of work a few times from them. (picketing and layoffs, etc). He was always a blue collar worker. I don't think he wanted management.

 

[OneBadV8]

I think the union has to walk (Strike) or the chapter 11 will get them out of the current contract. I might be wrong here someone correct me.

I think if they strike the company can rehire scabs to fill positions and just leave it at that. I thought SDI or some company in Auburn did that. Can't remember though.