Anyone Carry In Condition 3 (aka Israeli carry)?

[The Bubba Effect]

OP, when I started carrying I carried a 1911 with a grip safety and thumb safety and I carried in a crappy holster. I wanted the grip and thumb safeties to help with my concern of accidental discharge.

A few years down the road I am carrying one of two guns, neither of which has a grip safety or a thumb safety, but I carry in good holsters.

I cannot say enough about getting formal training and if I had it to do all over again, I would probably start with an intro to handguns class like the ones ACT or Bright Firearms occasionally puts on followed with Mindset Lab's Intro to Force on Force.

The question you are asking is a perfectly reasonable question and one that many of us have had. As you learn more, you will doubtless try different guns, different conditions and different gear of all types.

To answer the original question, no I do not and would not carry in condition 3. If someone guy at the gas station parking lot goes from trying to bum a cigarrete to trying to stab me in the stomach, I am going to be doing well to get the gun out and pointed at him, I do not want to add the hurdle of chambering a round.

 

[HamYankee]

Condition zero for me with a Glock. But, I think one should carry how they feel most comfortable. You'll probably evolve your carry situation as time passes.

 

[churchmouse]

Condition zero for me with a Glock. But, I think one should carry how they feel most comfortable. You'll probably evolve your carry situation as time passes.

Agreed.
If you carry be totally familiar with your sidearm of choice. They all have differences and we need to be familiar with them. Practice practice practice.
It is not out of the question to do draw and dry fire drills. A lot of them. Muscle memory is key.

 

[figley]

Agreed.
If you carry be totally familiar with your sidearm of choice. They all have differences and we need to be familiar with them. Practice practice practice.
It is not out of the question to do draw and dry fire drills. A lot of them. Muscle memory is key.

And when you do, ALL LIVE AMMO IN ANOTHER ROOM

 

[churchmouse]

And when you do, ALL LIVE AMMO IN ANOTHER ROOM

As mentioned up thread.....In a safe place. That figures into safe for us.
Sadly, some do not make the required efforts.

 

[Mark 1911]

Never been in a confrontation bur what I have read here and the training I have attended suggest most situations requiring you to draw give precious little time to react. Never carry with an empty chamber for that reason.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Never been in a confrontation bur what I have read here and the training I have attended suggest most situations requiring you to draw give precious little time to react. Never carry with an empty chamber for that reason.

You are correct, and in a big way. A tenth of a second or less may make all the difference in the world. Some people laugh at me and say it isn't the Old West, but you watch a video of someone trying to draw on a robber and catching a bullet juuuuust before they pull the trigger and you get some perspective on time.

Never assume you have time.
Never assume you'll have both hands available.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...begging*-you-stop-carrying-empty-chamber.html

 

[PGRChaplain]

This is not a Movie, Repeat this is not a movie! The Sights should be on top when firing, failure on this may result in you leaving the Human Race. Cocked & Locked, like John Browning designed it.

 

[cosermann]

… what I have read here and the training I have attended suggest most situations requiring you to draw give precious little time to react. Never carry with an empty chamber for that reason.

Yep.

You are correct, and in a big way. A tenth of a second or less may make all the difference in the world. Some people laugh at me and say it isn't the Old West, but you watch a video of someone trying to draw on a robber and catching a bullet juuuuust before they pull the trigger and you get some perspective on time.

Never assume you have time.
Never assume you'll have both hands available.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/324050-i-am-*begging*-you-stop-carrying-empty-chamber.html[/QUOTE]

And another big +1.

OP, if you haven’t already I’d encourage you to do some study the dynamics of personal defensive situations. There’s a fair bit of information/data out there; everything from law enforcement data to the collected incidents of Tom Givens’ students to news stories.

What you learn should inform your training and carry system.

None of it suggests you should count on having the luxury of time. In most cases you’ll be reacting and behind the curve.

Anything that slows you down, or increases the chances of your goofing up, like, I don’t know, carrying “Israeli style,” may have a significant impact on your survival.

 

[nakinate]

I forget the jurisdiction, but somewhere, even the police were forbidden by law from carrying with a round in the chamber. So, for the use of automatics, they invented a holster where, prior to drawing up and out of the holster, the shooter would just push the sidearm down far enough that the holster's grip on the slide racked back so on the draw proper, it stripped the first round off the top of the mag and into the chamber. Effectively, it only added a single downward stroke to the draw over and above a traditional condition 1 draw while adhering to the condition 3 law. I think the holster even acted as a level 2 retention holster, so the overall mindfulness of the draw was prolly a wash.

I believe that was Russia.

 

[schafe]

OP: If you haven't guessed it by now, I'll tell you that those on this forum who might be carrying unchambered, dare not admit it. Previous discussions of this subject have seen to that.
I'll just say, if that's what you want to do, practice plenty. For that matter, practice plenty in any case.

 

[churchmouse]

OP: If you haven't guessed it by now, I'll tell you that those on this forum who might be carrying unchambered, dare not admit it. Previous discussions of this subject have seen to that.
I'll just say, if that's what you want to do, practice plenty. For that matter, practice plenty in any case.

I do not see any dog piling just a lot of folks (many with a lot of experience) stating the opinion that carry on an empty chamber could get you hurt or worse.
I do agree with the practice practice practice.

 

[GIJEW]

About "Israeli" carry: you have to take the situation into account. We ALWAYS carried our rifles in condition 3 (and we ALWAYS carried them) EXCEPT when patrolling a border, or in a war zone--then we carried in condition 1.
As for individuals with a handgun, it used to be that there was zero street crime and the terrorists would hide their bombs in suitcases, trash cans, etc, or they'd ambush someone driving down the road with an automatic rifle. A quick draw&fire with a handgun isn't the first response to those things. If you got confronted by a rock/molotov cocktail throwing mob, you had enough distance to draw and chamber the first round.
If you have to contend with muggers in dark parking lots etc, consider yourself to be "on the front line" or alone behind enemy lines--condition 1 can save your life.

 

[cosermann]

Here's an interesting INGO poll on the subject: Do you keep one in the chamber or not?

(Not that you should make your decisions based on polls. Just kind of gives one an idea of where the INGO community is at.)

==>> https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/128142-keep-one-chamber-not.html

 

[Cygnus]

34 replies and no mention of Condition Butterscotch? It is the safest of all...

 

[GoBoilers!]

Okay, this is obviously a minority report, but I will go ahead and admit it:

I CARRIED WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

Now that I have gotten that off my chest, here is my opinion/advice. Carry however you feel comfortable. Do not feel "shamed" for carrying unchambered, especially if you are new at it. I personally feel better carrying a pistol with a manual safety, or a DA with a long and stiff first trigger pull. That is just me. I am still pretty new at this too, and I will most likely progress to carrying my Glock someday, but NOT until I feel comfortable with it and have practiced enough that a negligible discharge, especially while holstering, is no longer a fear. I believe that carrying unchambered is okay and I will not fault you on it, and it is still better than leaving it at home or in your vehicle. But I do ditto the advice on practicing with whatever method you decide.

Okay, I said it.

 

[DRob]

I CARRIED WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

Okay, I said it.

Of course this goes hand-in-hand with that "GoBoilers" thing and the avatar! (Somebody had to say it)

Just kidding, but that guy with the knife 20' away can be on you, cut you, maybe kill you before you get your gun in action. Maybe even before you clear the holster. Never mind the guy with a gun. Level the playing field. Put one in the chamber!

 

[churchmouse]

Of course this goes hand-in-hand with that "GoBoilers" thing and the avatar! (Somebody had to say it)

Just kidding, but that guy with the knife 20' away can be on you, cut you, maybe kill you before you get your gun in action. Maybe even before you clear the holster. Never mind the guy with a gun. Level the playing field. Put one in the chamber!

If more people were aware of the 20' rule this would be an eye opener.
We played this game out back last summer. My son is very fast on his feet.
I stumbled 1st drill with my blue gun and he had me down.
20' is not that much ground to cover by a determined person. Add drugs to the equation and......well......put one in the hole. Practice with your sidearm/EDC. It is part of being a responsible gun owner.

 

[nakinate]

Okay, this is obviously a minority report, but I will go ahead and admit it:

I CARRIED WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!

Now that I have gotten that off my chest, here is my opinion/advice. Carry however you feel comfortable. Do not feel "shamed" for carrying unchambered, especially if you are new at it. I personally feel better carrying a pistol with a manual safety, or a DA with a long and stiff first trigger pull. That is just me. I am still pretty new at this too, and I will most likely progress to carrying my Glock someday, but NOT until I feel comfortable with it and have practiced enough that a negligible discharge, especially while holstering, is no longer a fear. I believe that carrying unchambered is okay and I will not fault you on it, and it is still better than leaving it at home or in your vehicle. But I do ditto the advice on practicing with whatever method you decide.

Okay, I said it.

It's not about shaming someone. It's about giving them advice that may well save their life. When I first started carrying I gave it a trial run without a round in the chamber. I'm not ashamed of it. Absolutely take your time to get comfortable with one in the chamber, but do what's necessary to get comfortable carrying that way.

If I'm out with my family and I need to draw while getting a kid out of the way then I won't have 2 hands free to chamber a round. That's just one of many examples of why you should carry chambered. BehindBlueI's can give reasons even better than that based off his experience as a detective. INGO can be rough and sarcastic at times, but there is much to be learned from people more experienced than me.

 

[bingley]

At 1:30, "I keeps one in the chamber, in case you're ponderin'." Omar carries a .45.

[video=youtube;20G17K_0ghU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20G17K_0ghU[/video]