45 ACP Plated bullets

[Bigdog357]

A couple years ago I loaded some Powerbond 230 Gr round nose plated bullets at 1.256 COL and have had some feeding issues in my Para 1911. Has anybody used a shorter COL with this type of bullet in a semi auto pistol. I know you can go down to 1.210 COL, just wanted to see if anybody has had any success at say 1.225

 

[noylj]

How did you establish the COL? People have used lots of different COLs--'cause their guns are different.
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can determine this by using an empty sized case, expand and flare, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

How did you establish the COL? People have used lots of different COLs--'cause their guns are different.
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can determine this by using an empty sized case, expand and flare, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Thanks for posting that info.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I have loaded them at 1.230 with no problems.

 

[Sniper 79]

Figure out what gun likes load and shoot

 

[Bigdog357]

Figure out what gun likes load and shoot

Thanks Captain Obvious

Noylj, Thanks for posting, that is some good information, I will do a little testing

 

[Sniper 79]

Ever heard of the old thumb nail rule? Works good on the 45acp.

Load data is nothing but a reference tool. Blaze your own trail.

 

[Robert Richardson]

The old thumb nail rule applies more to a semi wadcutter type bullet.

 

[1775usmarine]

How did you establish the COL? People have used lots of different COLs--'cause their guns are different.
Per Ramshot:
"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can determine this by using an empty sized case, expand and flare, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Awesome info I've been using 1.25 for my 4506 with no issues besides 2 squibs which were more than likely to the bullseye clumping when I made the throws. I will have to try this as i only have the one 45. May be a dumb question but I'm assuming doing these steps and making flush would you give ideal accuracy when you find the load that works for the gun?

 

[noylj]

I generally load a LEAD bullet to just touch the rifling/lede or only be a little off. Jacketed bullets are generally just a little off the rifling/lede.
In generally, these round are just a tiny bit more accurate than rounds where the bullet is a good deal further away.
However, those are generalities that I have found with my guns.
I have one 9x19 with such a short throat that I have to load quite short. I have another that is so long that I can't load long enough to touch the rifling/lede. Since MY 9x19s aren't that accurate, most are loaded short for that one gun and I doubt I am missing much in terms of accuracy.
I had to "invent" the inert dummy round test back in the early '70s for a Browning Hi-Power--it was very picky. After a few months, I looked at the feed ramp and thought about the fact that it had two angles to it and thought about "smoothing" the ramp. Took a long, slow time to get rid of the "bump" and found the gun would feed much easier after that. The feed ramp was also mirror smooth by then.
Later, I read magazine articles also mentioning both, so I know I didn't do anything new.
Just be sure to work up loads at the COL you will be using and, if you change the COL later by more than 0.010", drop down a little and re-work. I haven't had to, but I still do it and end up where I would have started, but I don't want to take chances when testing is so easy.