26 degrees, blowing & drifting + Power OUTAGE

[melensdad]

Well we are all cozy inside because we have the generator running. I'm willing to bet that some of the neighbors are not quite as happy as we are.

And thank goodness the generator is Tri-Fuel unit that is connected to the natural gas line so I don't have to fill it up with gasoline every 4 to 6 hours. That is a PITA, and on days like this where the back roads are drifted over its a double PITA. Main roads are clear, but the drifting off the farm fields has many of the side roads only passable by 4x4 vehicles.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Glad to hear that you are prepared and things are working out for you. What generator do you have?


We're finalizing plans for construction of a new home and I'm trying to do some research into a good generator to provide emergency power and heat. We're not going to be conected to a natural gas supply, so I'll be looking for diesel or gasoline powered units.

 

[melensdad]

My generator is a Generac powered by a Briggs Vanguard V twin 16 hp engine. Its probably about 14 years old by now??? Got it before these new home back up units became common.

The biggest downside is that it is fairly loud. I hate the noise. Every year I tell myself that I am going to build a muffler system for it that will be quieter. Every year I don't do that. I'd like to adapt a car muffler to it so it could run nearly silently!

As for the type, if you do NOT have natural gas then I would go PROPANE. A large generator will only run a short while on 5 gallons of gasoline. Depending on the load maybe 6 hours. Assume you keep the generator tank full and have 2 extra gas cans in your garage that means you will only last 18 hours on your supply. Then factor in your trip to the gas station will only buy you another 12 hours. If you value sleep and comfort, buy a N.G./Propane generator and just switch it on and let it run!

Not sure where you are building but our longest power failure here was almost 8 days. While that is not typical, its not uncommon to have them last 6 to 12 hours, had many last close to 2 days. Personally I think the last thing you want to worry about is getting enough fuel. Remember when your generator runs out and you have to go to the gas station its a safe bet to assume that all the folks around you are in the same situation and will be filling up at the station every 12 hours along side you!

 

[jblomenberg16]

Thanks for the info. So with a 16hp motor, is your generator a 10kw Unit?

One of the decisions we're trying to make is just how large (and hence how much to spend) we need. I've worked through a number of different calculators and it appears that we could get by with a very small maybe 5kw set or need up to 20+kW if we wanted to really live large while on back-up power.

Also, did you wire yours into your breaker box, or do you have a separate breaker set up just for the essentials?

 

[shibumiseeker]

And it is worth it to note to those who may not know, a generator does not need to run 24 hours a day. Worst case scenario to extend fuel, you can get by with running them for a couple of hours a day, in the morning and in the evening to get the fridge and freezer to stay cool, and to charge battery operated devices.

 

[melensdad]

Thanks for the info. So with a 16hp motor, is your generator a 10kw Unit?

One of the decisions we're trying to make is just how large (and hence how much to spend) we need. I've worked through a number of different calculators and it appears that we could get by with a very small maybe 5kw set or need up to 20+kW if we wanted to really live large while on back-up power.

Also, did you wire yours into your breaker box, or do you have a separate breaker set up just for the essentials?

Yes 10kw, it will not run the whole house but runs most of it.

I have a secondary box and a cutover switch. The secondary box has the circuits we power with the generator.

And it is worth it to note to those who may not know, a generator does not need to run 24 hours a day. Worst case scenario to extend fuel, you can get by with running them for a couple of hours a day, in the morning and in the evening to get the fridge and freezer to stay cool, and to charge battery operated devices.

Yes, to "get by" so the pipes don't freeze and the food doesn't rot, you can run the generator a couple hours a day. However after doing that for a couple days and sleeping under a mountain of blankets it gets pretty darn old. Personally I like having lights, water from my well and heat.

And when the temps drop below 10 degrees and especially if it is windy outside then even a modern well insulated house will get cold very very quickly. We've been without power on -20 days here and even shutting the generator off for 1 hour saw the house temps drop very quickly on those days.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Yes, to "get by" so the pipes don't freeze and the food doesn't rot, you can run the generator a couple hours a day. However after doing that for a couple days and sleeping under a mountain of blankets it gets pretty darn old. Personally I like having lights, water from my well and heat.

And when the temps drop below 10 degrees and especially if it is windy outside then even a modern well insulated house will get cold very very quickly. We've been without power on -20 days here and even shutting the generator off for 1 hour saw the house temps drop very quickly on those days.

Right, which is why you plumbed it into the NG line and have a tri-fuel option. But I was letting folks know that you don't have to run it all the time, especially when fuel is tight, which is not something everyone knows or thinks of. I was NOT criticizing you for doing so.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Yes 10kw, it will not run the whole house but runs most of it.

I have a secondary box and a cutover switch. The secondary box has the circuits we power with the generator.

Excellent. That helps me in planning for our construction, which should start later this spring. It is one of thsoe cases of "lets do it right when it is easy" even if it costs a bit more up front.

 

[Bruenor]

Yes, to "get by" so the pipes don't freeze and the food doesn't rot, you can run the generator a couple hours a day. However after doing that for a couple days and sleeping under a mountain of blankets it gets pretty darn old. Personally I like having lights, water from my well and heat.

And when the temps drop below 10 degrees and especially if it is windy outside then even a modern well insulated house will get cold very very quickly. We've been without power on -20 days here and even shutting the generator off for 1 hour saw the house temps drop very quickly on those days.

This is why I am glad that we have a wood burning fireplace in the house. As long as I have fuel we'll stay warm, and I can get all the wood I need for the season for free from my boss's 40 acre plot.

 

[melensdad]

This is why I am glad that we have a wood burning fireplace in the house. As long as I have fuel we'll stay warm, and I can get all the wood I need for the season for free from my boss's 40 acre plot.

Yup, we also have alternate heat via 3 fireplaces, one of which is a gas 'sealed' unit that pumps out tons of heat when it is turned up. But the reality is that in most houses a wood stove or a fireplace won't do anything more than barely heat 1 room to semi-comfort levels when the outside temps are below freezing the wind is howling and the interior walls are cooling off in the rest of the house. Counting on a fireplace is not a good plan. Been there, done that. That was our first power failure experience here. After 3 days I got an 8000 watt generator hooked up as a temporary system until I could buy what I wanted.

If the power is out and you are not running whatever form of central heat you have because you are only running the generator a couple hours a day then the house walls get cold. Taking a warm/hot shower in a shower that has cold walls on the 2nd or 3rd day of a winter power outage is just another miserable experience that adds to the frustration of the situation. Tempers run short, bickering starts, its just not fun.

My suggestion to everyone/anyone who cares to hear it is to figure out the ESSENTIAL CIRCUITS in your home to live a reasonably normal life. Power the well, the furnace and the refrigerator and the extra freezer. Skip the oven and cooktop, but make sure you get the microwave and coffee pot. Don't forget to power the whole master bedroom so your wife can have closet lights, a blow dryer and the shower exhaust fan. Most master bedrooms have a nice TV set, the family can gather there for entertainment in the evenings, homework after school, etc.

Now if you can afford a bigger generator, then run power to the living room/family room with its entertainment center, the kid's bedrooms and their bathroom. Continue looking at 'essential' versus 'wanted' circuits as your budget allows.

As for the fuel type, I recommend whatever fuel you use to power your furnace. If you have a large propane tank then get a propane generator. If you have natural gas, then go for a NG generator. There is really no practical way to store enough gasoline to manage a long term (2+ day) power failure.

JMO

 

[Bruenor]

melensdad, I agree with your post. Having a fireplace, in my opinion, is a good way to supplement your generator. At least in the house that I have right now. The fireplace is in the living room, on an exterior wall. We could heat the living room, and that's about it. If we were stranded in our house and couldn't get out for days, we'd survive without power. However, I don't think that I could keep our pipes from freezing.

When my wife and I build a house, we're going to put in a masonry stove. If you don't know about these, I would highly suggest doing some research. It is basically a fireplace that 1) burns wood very quickly, thereby making it cleaner and 2) has a lot of stone or brick that will radiate the heat evenly throughout the room for several hours after the fire is out.

Here's a good picture of a masonry stove.

I'd position it in the middle of the house, with the living room on one side and the kitchen on the other. This way I can have the fireplace in the living room, and a wood burning stove in the kitchen.

 

[melensdad]

The masonary stove is very similar to what was used in many parts of Europe from the 1920s to the 1970s for primary heat. They work very well, when centered in a small (4 to 5 room) home and can actually heat the house if they are in the corner of 4 adjacent rooms where the room's walls intersect. I saw a lot of those, especially in Eastern Europe when I went over there before the fall of the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain. Just a caveat, they must be property constructed to function well, but when they well designed, they work like a charm.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I ran the generator / welder about 20 minutes today while I had the tractor out plowing the drive way. Didn't need it, just marking off an item on the once a month check sheet.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I note a significant philosophy difference. FWIW, I heat almost entirely with wood with propane as a backup/supplement. But it's also a small house, 1200sq ft plus basement. I also am completely off the grid and without the solar panels I have, I would need about a gallon of gasoline a day to run my place. This isn't theory for me, I've been doing it for many years now. With my solar panels I need about half of that.

Now, in Melensdad's case, if one is trying to live a completely normal lifestyle in the short term, powering the average 3000+sq ft dwelling normally for a few days to a week or so, then he's absolutely correct, and I wouldn't try to tell anyone any different. Things change when the problem starts extending beyond that few days though.

 

[JohnP82]

good job way to be prepared

 

[whipfinish]

Just my 2cents worth, my brother in law built a home that used 2x6 studs that were spray foamed with insulation. He heats the entire 2000 square feet, two story house with a soap stone wood burner that he purchased from somewhere in Vermont. His gas bill last winter was $25.00 for the furnace.

Some of the side benefits of the spray foam insulation are the noise insulation factor. He can't hear a car driving up to his house within twenty feet of the door.

 

[Dr Falken]

I think there is great assurance to know that I could heat the house and stay warm if the power went out. I have a generator, but I was glad to know that I wouldn't have to depend on it to keep us going in our house. We would have light and heat, hot water without electric and that made me feel good. Our house is small (900sqft) and bermed and southern exposed, we heat with a wood stove, and have propane heat. We would not be able use the furnace if the power went out, but we could cook food on the stove or wood stove. We are on grid water, so we wouldn't have to worry about powering a well (but that also has other issues). So overall, I felt ok about our ability to deal with a power outage in the winter. Of course we don't quite have the temps and snow that you have farther north. I like not having to rely on a generator.