Anyone with a Glock 17R?

[Sylvain]

Any of you own a Glock 17R?
Can your order one at your local gun shop or at they hard to find?

Looks like it's the best way to do dry practice drills.
The trigger will resest automaticly without racking the slide, you can chamber a round but cant fire live ammo, it's made by Glock ... the only downside is the price I guess.I heard they are around $800 or more and that's if you can find one.

 

[sliptap]

For $800, you could buy a used Glock 17 and roughly 1500 rounds of 9mm.

If 1500 rounds won't get you trained, I don't know what will. Plus, you'd have the benefit of a real pistol and the fun of blasting things in the process

 

[in625shooter]

For $15 you can buy a traning barrel from Blade tech TB001 Training Barrel : TRAINING BARREL | Brownells

Or just remove all ammunition into a separate room and aim at a safe area )with a back stop just in case) and practice for free! Dry firing is perfectly safe and will not harm your gun unlike the wives tales say. they only things I wouldn't recommend is rimfires and muzzle loaders. But if you have several hundred dollars laying around by all means buy whatever you think you need.

 

[VERT]

The yellow training barrels work good. But you do have to run the slide to reset the trigger.

 

[rvb]

not sure why you need a special pistol or a special barrel to dryfire?

a glock trigger will reset itself for dryfire purposes if you put a piece of thin cardboard or folded paper (I found the cardboard from a code/pepsi carton folded over works well) between the barrel hood and slide, slightly holding it out of battery. It just wont click [release the striker], but it'll reset, allowing you to pull the trigger repeatedly.

If you are specifically working on trigger control (eg the old dime on the FS drill), then just rack it. If you are doing reloads, multiple target transitions, draws, etc etc, then just use the paper trick to hold it slightly out of battery.

If you really want to spend lots of $, I'll PM you my mailing address.....

-rvb

 

[in625shooter]

not sure why you need a special pistol or a special barrel to dryfire?

a glock trigger will reset itself for dryfire purposes if you put a piece of thin cardboard or folded paper (I found the cardboard from a code/pepsi carton folded over works well) between the barrel hood and slide, slightly holding it out of battery. It just wont click [release the striker], but it'll reset.

If you are specifically working on trigger control (eg the old dime on the FS drill), then just rack it. If you are doing reloads, multiple target transitions, draws, etc etc, then just use the paper trick to hold it slightly out of battery.

If you really want to spend lots of $, I'll PM you my mailing address.....

-rvb

The special barrels are an less expensive alternative to the $50 rubber guns several LE agencies train with. The downside to rubber guns is well it's just rubber! The good thing with the barrel inserts is the trigger still works so you can practice weapons retention/defense with your actual duty/carry gun without the fear it will have a live round in it (accidents happen with what is suppose to be unloaded guns, Bit with Training barrels humans are still involved so enough said). If you have a Glock or other pistol with only single strike then yes racking the slide is needed. SIG's and others no. Not really an issue of racking the slide.

 

[rvb]

The special barrels are an less expensive alternative to the $50 rubber guns several LE agencies train with. The downside to rubber guns is well it's just rubber! The good thing with the barrel inserts is the trigger still works so you can practice weapons retention/defense with your actual duty/carry gun without the fear it will have a live round in it (accidents happen with what is suppose to be unloaded guns).

If you are doing FoF type stuff, ie blue gun type stuff that's different. But for dryfire, you don't need that. there is no benefit. make sure the gun is unloaded, treat it as if it is (only point at things you are willing to put a bullet into, safe backstop etc etc).

If you have a Glock or other pistol with only single strike then yes racking the slide is needed. SIG's and others no. Not really an issue of racking the slide.

Not sure what you mean about not an issue of racking the slide? that was the OP's exact justification for spending $800. Using the trick to hold the glock slightly out of battery really is no different that usnig a Sig or other DA/SA pistols w/o racking the slide... the trigger pull in either isn't exactly the same for follow-up shots as it would be in live fire... but that's ok because that's not the only thing we are practicing in "dryfire" (there are already several threads on what "dryfire" encompasses). But at least the trigger resets.

-rvb

 

[in625shooter]

If you are doing FoF type stuff, ie blue gun type stuff that's different. But for dryfire, you don't need that. there is no benefit. make sure the gun is unloaded, treat it as if it is (only point at things you are willing to put a bullet into, safe backstop etc etc).



Not sure what you mean about not an issue of racking the slide? that was the OP's exact justification for spending $800. Using the trick to hold the glock slightly out of battery really is no different that usnig a Sig or other DA/SA pistols w/o racking the slide... the trigger pull in either isn't exactly the same for follow-up shots as it would be in live fire... but that's ok because that's not the only thing we are practicing in "dryfire" (there are already several threads on what "dryfire" encompasses). But at least the trigger resets.

-rvb

Dry firing is one thing and can be safely done with no barrels but of some weapons retention/disarmament drills there are several techniques where you actually are taught to manipulate either your weapon or the BG's weapon in a position in a hand on CQ type fight to shoot them. The training barrels add safety to there would be no way for a live round (shouldn't have a mag in for that type training anyway) to get in the chamber. Like I stated would never use a real gun without a training barrel in it for that type of training because well accidents happen.

My comment of racking the slide not being a problem was for me. I personally don't se a big deal with it. As for your suggestions on the paper to modify the firearm to pull the trigger without racking the slide you can do whatever finagled trick you want. As for me I'll stick to approved methods from both the manufacturer and agency stuff. Not hating on anyone's homemade methods I just have a different hat on and if I don't utilize approved methods and something goes wrong I don't want to pay for my own attorney (and yes your staff will try to sue you even when they are the ones that were stupid) So for that reason that is all I will recommend if someone asks me here or at work.

 

[rvb]

Dry firing is one thing and can be safely done with no barrels but of some weapons retention/disarmament drills there are several techniques where you actually are taught to manipulate either your weapon or the BG's weapon in a position in a hand on CQ type fight to shoot them. The training barrels add safety to there would be no way for a live round (shouldn't have a mag in for that type training anyway) to get in the chamber. Like I stated would never use a real gun without a training barrel in it for that type of training because well accidents happen.

no need to argue that point, I already agreed with it.

My comment of racking the slide not being a problem was for me. I personally don't se a big deal with it. As for your suggestions on the paper to modify the firearm to pull the trigger without racking the slide you can do whatever finagled trick you want. As for me I'll stick to approved methods from both the manufacturer and agency stuff. Not hating on anyone's homemade methods I just have a different hat on and if I don't utilize approved methods and something goes wrong I don't want to pay for my own attorney (and yes your staff will try to sue you even when they are the ones that were stupid) So for that reason that is all I will recommend if someone asks me here or at work.

So you have have nothing to say about the method I suggested to the OP for an alternative and cheaper dryfire method other than you don't want to get sued for recommending it? gotcha. I guess that's why they are able to sell these things. Hundreds of competition shooters use this method regularly. I didn't invent it.

-rvb

 

[in625shooter]

no need to argue that point, I already agreed with it.



So you have have nothing to say about the method I suggested to the OP for an alternative and cheaper dryfire method other than you don't want to get sued for recommending it? gotcha. I guess that's why they are able to sell these things. Hundreds of competition shooters use this method regularly. I didn't invent it.

-rvb

Either I didn't explain myself well enough or you misunderstood me. I'm not worried about getting sued by your suggested method. Just stating home remedies of folding cardboard from a pepsi product around the barrel hood and slide to be able to manipulate the trigger without working the slide thus modifying the firearm to work differently than it is suppose to is not a good thing and defiantly not an approved method. Never said anything about you or anyone else using it, everyone is their own man/women and that's on them, just making my recommendations that I wouldn't do it and why.

The mention of the lawsuit was more to the using a real firearm for the weapons disarmament/weapons retention training if something went wrong. While the OP mentioned dry firing I brought up the training barrels because they can also give the user an extra bit of confidence that nothing would in fact happen (ie round get fired). 100's of TV's across the country are injured every year because it's always the unloaded guns that go off. The training barrels prevent this. Like I said earlier humans are well....human and some make very dumb mistakes. Train folks on firearms as a living and you will see it first hand that if you do not follow approved methods/curriculum and agency policy you will be on the short end of the stick.

 

[rvb]

home remedies of folding cardboard ... thus modifying the firearm to work differently than it is suppose to is not a good thing and defiantly not an approved method. Never said anything about you or anyone else using it, everyone is their own man/women and that's on them, just making my recommendations that I wouldn't do it and why.

approved by whom? why do I need it to be approved? we aren't talking about formal department/agency use here, are we? If so, I would suspect the OP would have official channels to procure one.

So far, "not approved" is the only justification you've given for not using this method. Guess I better break it to the wife I have to spend $800 on a dryfire gun because the method I've been using for a couple years now is "not approved."

-rvb

 

[in625shooter]

approved by whom? why do I need it to be approved? we aren't talking about formal department/agency use here, are we? If so, I would suspect the OP would have official channels to procure one.

So far, "not approved" is the only justification you've given for not using this method. Guess I better break it to the wife I have to spend $800 on a dryfire gun because the method I've been using for a couple years now is "not approved."

-rvb

rvb was just respectfully discussing some stuff here and apparently we are disagreeing on. Perhaps its the verbage. I only mentioned the "approved" mostly for the whole other training methods I brought into discussion. As your how to get around working the slide to dry fire it might work however, You tell me what manufacturer would say "Hey yeah that whole put the cardboard from a soft drink product into our named firearm to manipulate the trigger like it wasn't intended to work, yeah that's a great idea". That was my point. No you won't get into legal trouble for dry firing a firearm but sounds sort of uninformed to home remedy the trigger with foreign objects when you can simply rack the slide. There are plenty of products sold for the purpose of dry firing. snap caps, training barrels and probably a few more products. Let me ask you this would you also recommend just racking the slide on a pump shotgun to eject unfired cases because well that "seams to work" as well? Another example of an unapproved method. Also whether you are a private instructor, work for an agency as an instructor or just telling your friends "hey this is how you do it with this short cut like this and you don't have anything to back it up (say from a manufacturer) then if you break your gun.

If you can use this to justify $800 expenditures to your other half than by all means run with it! LOL

 

[rvb]

Shhh don't tell Glock, but I also use reloads. That's expressly not approved. Neither practices has broken my glocks yet. Perhaps we shouldn't recommend dry fire, esp w.o snap caps.... Seems most manufacturers don't approve of that practice.

-rvb

 

[rvb]

http://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/aug_09_p42_glock_dry.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DvyZvdC2Bs

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102199
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=145764
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=159711
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115713
http://glock.pro/glock-tech-warrant...slide-slightly-out-battery-safe-my-glock.html
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144213

 

[Sylvain]

The yellow training barrel is good but it wont let you chamber a round which means you cant use dummy rounds to do some malfunctions drills like you can with the G17R.

 

[chezuki]

The yellow training barrel is good but it wont let you chamber a round which means you cant use dummy rounds to do some malfunctions drills like you can with the G17R.

Malfunction drills are best done during LIVE FIRE by having snap-caps randomly loaded among live rounds. The idea is to learn to effectively recognize and clear unexpected malfunctions.

Dry Fire =$0
Snap-Caps ~$15

That leaves $785 for ammo and training.

If you really need a dedicated pistol for malfunction clearance drills, buy a Taurus or KelTec.

 

[Sylvain]

Malfunction drills are best done during LIVE FIRE by having snap-caps randomly loaded among live rounds. The idea is to learn to effectively recognize and clear unexpected malfunctions.

Dry Fire =$0
Snap-Caps ~$15

That leaves $785 for ammo and training.

If you really need a dedicated pistol for malfunction clearance drills, buy a Taurus or KelTec.

lol