is it worth being an FFL?

[45calibre]

Just to get good deals on guns and ammo without having a shop? I dont wanna get rich off selling guns just for some money on the side.

 

[IndyGunworks]

It MUST be done for profit... and the atf can just show up and do supprise inspections whenever they want.... it costs 75 dollars a year for the first three years so you would have to be able to save more than that... unless you are going to be doing some serious buying, or trying to make alot of mony off it probably not.... then comes getting zoning permission which varies from rediculous to absolutely ludacris... some places require a store front.... and you will be on the governments lists for the rest of your life..... YOUR call

 

[El Cazador]

This is good question, although I'm looking into it for the business aspect rather than just the discount. Doc's after me to get off my feet, and away from the more physical part of my work.

it costs 75 dollars a year for the first three years

I think I saw it's up to $200 for the first three years, then drops to $75 a year after that. I've also noticed there isn't much help from the BATFE on just what is the protocol on applying for the 01 license, and you have to pay to even download the license application.

But, I'm still interested in it. I'm thinking of dealing in reloading supplies along with the usual gun shop stuff. Right now I'm still watching the lack of availability of powder and primers, and how soon this might even out, along with the current Fed Administration and what they might try after 2010, before I go too far in the process.

 

[IndyGunworks]

by all means do it if you want to i am not trying to stop you... i am looking into applying for mine right now just dont have the funds.... 200 for a suppressor 200 for an ffl 200 for an SBR.... stuff adds up... have to get some more money before i move any further forward... you are right though its 200 for the first three years... i just did quick math and was way off... after that i think its actually 75 for three or two years but a cheaper price than the first three...
good luck in your ventures.

 

[El Cazador]

I know you weren't trying to dissuade me, I agree it should be done for more than any discount, because the costs are too high. I don't think the ATF is even allowing "kitchen table" FFL's to be permitted anymore, so just trying for one for the discounts would be a waste of time, I'm guessing.
And, I'm tight on funds too, so before I really dive in, I'm gathering more info on the whole process, and what it would take to keep me in business.

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

It MUST be done for profit...

He is right. But mine has cost me more that i've brought in. My problem is that I buy up a bunch of stuff for resale and I don't want to sell it. I want to look at it. But it's nice getting to choose between 5 or 6 guns, which one do I want to carry today.

 

[westfork]

my wife and i run a small home-based business and are type 07 FFL holders. that is basically a license to manufacture and/or sell firearms as well as do gunsmithing and all that good stuff. we are what you would consider a 'kitchen table' gun dealer in that we operate from our home and our 'business hours' are the hours that i am typically home from my day job. those who say it is impossible to run this type of operation are either misleading you or are misinformed. if you can meet the necessary requirements, fill out the paperwork, pay the fees, and be professional you can do it. and it might blow your mind, but... the everyone at the bureau that i dealt with throughout the process was extremely courteous, helpful and professional.

local laws and zoning ordinances play a HUGE part in this equation. the ATF wants nothing more than to verify that you are running a legitimate business in accordance with all local laws before they will grant you the federal authority to conduct business related to firearms transactions. we have been blessed by the fact that we live in a county with little or no local or county level zoning. we are in one of the last 'free' counties around that i am aware of. it has its disadvantages, but when it comes to things of this nature it is a big plus. some counties/towns require business licenses, zoning, variances, etc. do your homework! hire a good lawyer if you can afford one. there will be surprises. i will note, however, we did it all on our own from scratch with no lawyers or outside assistance. if we had doubts about anything with the application process i picked up the phone and called the FFL licensing center.

as for making money, that's a whole different ballgame. if you want this to be your career, you had better have a business plan and some serious financial backing. everything we currently do is out of pocket (i.e. purchasing inventory, etc.) as we do not want to incur any 'debt' in running this business. our business model has been a 'start from nothing' mentality as a second job for additional income in hopes of it growing into a (retirement?) income. we do special order firearms sales for friends, family, and acquantances primarily. they pay up front and we get them what they want. realize that we do not get as deep a discount with wholesalers as many big stores do - but we don't have near the overhead they do either. we stay relatively competive in pricing due to that aspect.

you do need to show the atf that you hold your FFL in the pursuit of profit. keep in mind that 'profit' isn't necisarily $$$$. we charge a 10% premium on special order firearms. that's not much profit if you think about the time it takes to locate, order, receive, and process paperwork along with everything else running your 'business' involves.

if you just want to purchase guns for your own collection then you can forget about getting an FFL. the bureau comes to your house and interviews you and tries to get a feel for what you are trying to do with your license. it is best to have plans to sell firearms to others for profit. yes it can be a small markup to family, friends, and neighbors... but be prepared to do so or you will likely risk losing your license.

if you are into older firearms you might want to consider a C&R license.

another idea would be to hang onto your cold hard cash and wait for all the people who went out and bought guns during the big obama rush to crap out on their mortgages and car payments and buy up their arms for pennies on the dollar. i know that is a crappy attitude but i have a feeling that day might come.

good luck in whatever you decide to do....

 

[El Cazador]

So, how long have you had your FFL? The way I'm understanding this from some others, the decision to decline the "no store front, kitchen table only" applicants is fairly recent. I'm in the process of writing a business plan right now. I also have a good line on a building with few zoning issues. And while I'm sure family and friends will rate special discounts, this is to be my livelihood to retirement and beyond. So profit is definitely a goal. But, I'm basing this on a budget start-up. Thinking about seeing what government grants might be available. The idea of using Bwacky funds to start up a gun shop has appeal.

 

[Steven]

westfork has done a good job of explaining a good route to getting a FFL and having a home based business.

Like he said and this is very important "local laws and zoning ordinances play a HUGE part in this equation"

Several gun shops in my area are home based, a small building next to the house, the biggest hurdle they had in getting started was local zoning, once approved at the local level, the rest went smoothly.

 

[2cool9031]

You might want to start out with a C&R license....it still allows you to buy ammo at dealer prices ....but it does limit the types of firearms you can purchase. I had a C&R license for 9 years till I let it expire. I am currently going to apply for it again.

 

[westfork]

we got our license in early april. i have sunk a good deal of time into the 'business' aspects of the business. i didn't really even touch on that in the novel i wrote in my last post. it's not as hard as it sounds, but you do have to decide on how your business is going to be structured. sole proprietorship, partnership, LLC, corporation, etc... once you decide on that you can file with the irs to get a EIN (if you need it), file with indiana department of revenue for a 'registered retail merchant certificate' that allows you to collect sales taxes and make tax exempt purchases, and then, of course, file for your FFL.

we did it in basically that order and were able to get 'retailer' discounts through several suppliers before we had our FFL. that allowed us to buy parts, accessories, ammo, and all other things non-gun. that at least kept me excited about the whole thing while we were in the process of getting our FFL. the whole process of getting the license took from mailing our check in to having our interview to having our license in hand took about 9 weeks. that includes a couple of additional correspondence exhanges where they requested some additional information from us.

i use the word process a lot. that's exactly what it is - a process. fill in the blanks, cross your t's and dot your i's, follow the rules, pay the fees, and then you're in. maintain your records accurately and play nice and enjoy!

 

[turnandshoot4]

+1 to Westfork

 

[IndyGunworks]

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