Shipping Handgun Owner legality

[cosermann]

Posting here cause I’m not sure which sub for this goes into. Mods can move if needed.

So, hypothetically, if a friend (from out of state) visited and forgot his handgun, could one mail it back to him out of state?

In principal seems like that should be OK. Oth

 

[Creedmoor]

I would ship it UPS or FedEx to yourself in care of, his name, at his address.
Machine Parts, insured for its full value.

 

[Mgderf]

Posting here cause I’m not sure which sub for this goes into. Mods can move if needed.

So, hypothetically, if a friend (from out of state) visited and forgot his handgun, could one mail it back to him out of state?

In principal seems like that should be OK. Oth

To be perfectly legal, since state lines are involved, take it to an FFL and have them ship it to your friend.
Maybe the transfer fee to get his own gun back will make him a little more attentive in regards to his sidearms.

 

[WebSnyper]

Not legal to ship from a non FFL to another non ffl person out of state by either mail or common carrier (in state rules are different for long guns):

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a...

www.atf.gov

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state. The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any...

www.atf.gov

If you friend wanted to ship it to themselves that's legal:

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to him or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–state resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other...

www.atf.gov

 

[Creedmoor]

To be perfectly legal, since state lines are involved, take it to an FFL and have them ship it to your friend.
Maybe the transfer fee to get his own gun back will make him a little more attentive in regards to his sidearms.

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to him or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–state resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other...

www.atf.gov

 

[shootersix]

Depending on how out of state your friend is, it might be cheaper to meet them for lunch between here and there and just hand it off (I’d make him pay for lunch)

Shipping, transfer fee and insurance ain’t cheap

 

[Cameramonkey]

Just keep it until you see him again. The price to pay for carelessness.

 

[Bassat]

Ownership is not changing. You are simply sending HIS gun to HIM. Manufacturers do it all the time. My warranty-repaired Charter Arms revolver got back to the factory via a UPS call tag. I packed it up and took it to UPS. 11 days later, I got a UPS delivery (to my house) from Charter Arms: my repaired gun. It was labeled as 'machine parts'.

I also shipped a defective Kahr 9mm CM9 back to them UPS. Kahr deemed it not repairable and sent me a brand new gun, via FFL of my choice. New gun, transfer of ownership, FFL involved.

 

[indyblue]

Ownership is not changing. You are simply sending HIS gun to HIM. Manufacturers do it all the time. My warranty-repaired Charter Arms revolver got back to the factory via a UPS call tag. I packed it up and took it to UPS. 11 days later, I got a UPS delivery (to my house) from Charter Arms: my repaired gun. It was labeled as 'machine parts'.

I also shipped a defective Kahr 9mm CM9 back to them UPS. Kahr deemed it not repairable and sent me a brand new gun, via FFL of my choice. New gun, transfer of ownership, FFL involved.

I've always thought manufacturers are basically acting FFL's and you are dealing directly with them making this possible. Not so with an individual.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The only gotcha with shipping comes with when the package gets lost. Those "Machine Parts" suddenly becoming a firearm most likely equals a denial of the insurance claim. Misleading the carrier isnt a problem until it is. ("what they dont know wont hurt them")

Good luck getting them to pay out as soon as you are forced to explain to them exactly what these "machine parts" look like so they know who's it is when they find the errant box or the "parts" laying on the floor of the truck because the box ripped open*.

IF you havent been forthcoming and followed all of the shipper's rules from the get-go, if the box disappears, its gone. Just accept it. Because they arent making you whole no matter what.


*and it does happen. We had a shipment between offices arrive with a partial case of high end computer CPUs inside our box. (a $2,800 value) I called the sender to ask what these extra parts were and they said "what parts?" Apparently boxes got wet in transit and multiple boxes broke open, spilling contents. worker drones saw the computer tower in our box with extra room due to sloppy overpack, and assumed this box of CPUs went with it. So they threw somebody else's product inside our box.

 

[gassprint1]

I have seen videos of hunters shipping rifles ahead of their trips, no ffl involved.
You could always break the gun down into 4 machine parts packages. Frame, mags, slide and then the barrel with spring.

 

[WebSnyper]

Ownership is not changing. You are simply sending HIS gun to HIM. Manufacturers do it all the time. My warranty-repaired Charter Arms revolver got back to the factory via a UPS call tag. I packed it up and took it to UPS. 11 days later, I got a UPS delivery (to my house) from Charter Arms: my repaired gun. It was labeled as 'machine parts'.

That's not what the ATF'S website indicates, as there is a difference between a licensee and a non licensee. The OEM is a licensee.

 

[WebSnyper]

I have seen videos of hunters shipping rifles ahead of their trips, no ffl involved.
You could always break the gun down into 4 machine parts packages. Frame, mags, slide and then the barrel with spring.

There is a technical difference and that is shipping to one's self. See the ATF references in previous posts about shipping to oneself.

Breaking down the firearm doesn't mean that shipping the serialized part is magically now not shipping a firearm.

 

[Bassat]

That's not what the ATF'S website indicates, as there is a difference between a licensee and a non licensee. The OEM is a licensee.

Thanks. I was unaware of the distinction. CA CS explained that since it was my gun, there was no transfer requirement. They did not mention that they could do that, and I could not.

 

[Slow Hand]

From my memory of selling some guns on auction arms awhile back…

non-licensees cannot ship handguns via US Mail. Have to use FedEx or UPS, and their rules state that handguns have to go overnight of some sort or another.
legally, you can ship a firearm to yourself in another state. Even though it’s his gun, you (probably; plumber, not a lawyer here) cannot ship it to him. Now, if you ship it to yourself at his address so you can properly return it to him next time you visit, that should legal. If he takes it upon himself to open the package up, that’s on him….

 

[cosermann]

Great discussion, thanks everyone.

 

[mcapo]

There is a technical difference and that is shipping to one's self. See the ATF references in previous posts about shipping to oneself.

Breaking down the firearm doesn't mean that shipping the serialized part is magically now not shipping a firearm.

I concur with Mr. WS.

Unless someone here is an ATF agent here with the regulations that CLEARLY permits Person A shipping Person's B handgun to them in another state without an FFL, its not worth the risk to try to ship person to person, IMO.

This isn't the situation of shipping your hunting rifle to yourself in another state - unless you lie about it.

Take it to your local LGS, explain the situation and have them ship it. What are talking? An extra $20-$40 dollars?

Interstate commerce (shipping) and firearms is not a place to seek the grey area of the law and/or self-interpretation.

 

[xwing]

I would ship it UPS or FedEx to yourself in care of, his name, at his address.
Machine Parts, insured for its full value.

It's a question of "is it legal" not "might you get away with it"?

It would be illegal. To ship it back correctly, you'd need an FFL involved.

 

[Creedmoor]

It's a question of "is it legal" not "might you get away with it"?

It would be illegal. To ship it back correctly, you'd need an FFL involved.

No you don't.

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to him or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–state resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other...

www.atf.gov

 

[xwing]

No you don't.

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to him or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–state resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other...

www.atf.gov

I'm aware of that one. It pertains to "for his or her own use". It's not "to another person". In the original scenario above, Person A is mailing it back to Person B. A temporary transfer (probably unlawfully per federal law) unintentionally took place when the firearm was left. To get it back to Person B who resided in another state, it would have to be shipped to an FFL in Person B's state.