"You should be afraid"

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  • FishermanJoe

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 16, 2020
    2
    1
    Indianapolis
    I've been lurking for some time - and unfortunately it looks like my first post is on a very politicized topic.

    I really want to understand everyone here.

    On one hand I'm constantly reading how Biden is going to steal our guns, starting with the AR15 platform, but "we wont comply" is stated. Like the law can evidently be ignored due to one reason or another.

    Why does it change so much when it involves the police? "They" will likely try to send police to confiscate your AR15, would you comply then because it's a "lawful order" from a "police officer?"

    So I come to this event in the topic in particular. A man drives an exceptional distance when pulled over by the police - and finally stops in a well lit gas station. (Cameras, high visibility, nothing bad can go unseen from either party). Reason for pulling over is no visible plate, traffic stop.

    Remember one of our golden rules of firearm safety, never point it at anything you dont intend to destroy.

    So the police intended to destroy this man because he drove too long to pull over? Bull. Police gave unlawful orders, escalated the situation, and abused someone. Nazario was stiff throughout but he kept quiet and calm - it's a slam dunk case for his lawyers.

    Notice how nervous handlebar marine is towards the end of the whole encounter? "Smoke? That's a BA name for a BA dog." He knows he screwed up and started trying to talk himself out of getting this situation raised to the attention of a court system that'll have his job for a dangerous power trip.


    None of this indicative of the vast majority of traffic stops or interactions with the police. Most of those dont start with guns drawn.
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,022
    113
    Martinsville
    It would certainly help if ISP and cities would stop using unmarked cars for traffic stops.

    Fort Wayne has a black Silverado they use; it's really hard to know if it's legit.

    I think unmarked cars are a mistake in general. They completely obliterate the presence of law enforcement; the passive policing.
    I've also had plenty of experiences where the lights are almost impossible to see.

    They may make sense in some contexts, such as intel gathering, but otherwise...
    I've seen a green dodge ram around here as an unmarked car, now that's about as far from a police vehicle as you'd ever expect.
     

    Doug

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    69   0   0
    Sep 5, 2008
    6,517
    149
    Indianapolis
    "Re-imagine policing."
    OK...in any encounter with a suspect, the officer will request that the suspect comply. If the suspect refuses to comply and the officer has reason to believe the suspect will resist and/or institute legal action against the officer, the police force, or the city, county, or state, the officer will break-off contact with the suspect and leave the area.
     

    Ark

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   0
    Feb 18, 2017
    6,735
    113
    Indy
    "Re-imagine policing."
    OK...in any encounter with a suspect, the officer will request that the suspect comply. If the suspect refuses to comply and the officer has reason to believe the suspect will resist and/or institute legal action against the officer, the police force, or the city, county, or state, the officer will break-off contact with the suspect and leave the area.
    I think this is 100% where we're going. The formal, official establishment of a level of violent resistance above which the police will be told to disengage and allow a suspect to leave.

    Like that scene in Tokyo Drift where they blast through a police speed trap and the police don't even bother to go after them because their police cars are electronically limited to a lower speed than the baddies are driving. Cops will write tickets and do evictions and farm revenue from compliant people while completely ignoring anyone who meets a certain level of violence.
     

    retsgt

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 14, 2017
    6
    3
    Aurora



    https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_f3fa7fa1-5b03-5379-ab26-bb6fed57b996.html

    When pulling someone over for not having a license plate is it common practice to draw on them right out of the gate?

    I’m a retired Indiana LEO, I never in my 25 years pulled my service weapon for a traffic stop. If you knew ahead of time that the occupants of the vehicle were armed or wanted on a felony charge yes you did have your weapon unholstered. Routine traffic stop NO!
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,696
    113
    .
    it will be interesting to see what the future brings and the size of payouts for cases of this type. I wonder what the TV commercials from law firms will look like.
     

    indyjohn

    PATRIOT
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    77   0   0
    Dec 26, 2010
    7,505
    77
    In the trees
    So tired of hearing people whine about "deescalating". Why didn't you just shoot him with the deescalation gun? Why didn't Obi-Wan just use his deescalating mind trick? :rolleyes:

    Ask, tell, make. If you don't do it when you're asked, and you don't do it when you're told, the police will make you do it. You decide the amount of force that is used against you. You have the power to "deescalate" yourself, by doing what you are told during a lawful traffic stop and a lawful arrest.

    He chose to complain, argue, refuse, and resist, so the police stopped telling and started making. I think this is another case of somebody believing they have the magic ethnicity that exempts them from following police orders.
    One thing I will never understand is why people can't follow completely clear and simple orders, get the situation chilled out, then present their argument if they want to argue.

    Resisting doesn't make logical sense unless you're going to do some very illegal things.

    Also I do wonder if LEO are cool with you pulling off the closest available turn off on a highway for both parties safety, and if that's communicable. Seems like something that should be the norm.
    One thing I will never understand is why a segment of our society thinks fleeing law enforcement is an acceptable action. Another thing I will never understand is when that segment of society act surprised when that action ends badly.
     

    printcraft

    INGO Clown
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Feb 14, 2008
    38,993
    113
    Uranus
    "Re-imagine policing."
    OK...in any encounter with a suspect, the officer will request that the suspect comply. If the suspect refuses to comply and the officer has reason to believe the suspect will resist and/or institute legal action against the officer, the police force, or the city, county, or state, the officer will break-off contact with the suspect and leave the area.

    You forgot "call a social worker" to handle the situation.
     
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    Reactions: KG1

    kickbacked

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 12, 2010
    2,390
    113
    "Re-imagine policing."
    OK...in any encounter with a suspect, the officer will request that the suspect comply. If the suspect refuses to comply and the officer has reason to believe the suspect will resist and/or institute legal action against the officer, the police force, or the city, county, or state, the officer will break-off contact with the suspect and leave the area.
    You don’t have to imagine. Some departments have a no chase policy for motorcycles.
     

    KLB

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 12, 2011
    23,011
    77
    Porter County
    I think unmarked cars are a mistake in general. They completely obliterate the presence of law enforcement; the passive policing.
    I've also had plenty of experiences where the lights are almost impossible to see.

    They may make sense in some contexts, such as intel gathering, but otherwise...
    I've seen a green dodge ram around here as an unmarked car, now that's about as far from a police vehicle as you'd ever expect.
    It isn't just unmarked cars. Some of the regular patrol vehicles are hard to spot now. Low profile or hidden light and more common paint colors are becoming more and more common. The Porter Country Deputies Explorers are like that.
    1618422549687.png
     

    KittySlayer

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 29, 2013
    6,473
    77
    Northeast IN
    On one hand I'm constantly reading how Biden is going to steal our guns, starting with the AR15 platform, but "we wont comply" is stated. Like the law can evidently be ignored due to one reason or another.

    Why does it change so much when it involves the police? "They" will likely try to send police to confiscate your AR15, would you comply then because it's a "lawful order" from a "police officer?"
    Perhaps it has something to do with rights enumerated within the Constitution that cannot should not be overridden by laws.

    Driving is a privilege not covered by the Constitution but rather governed by laws.

    Someone in the military that long should be used to following orders (get out of the vehicle) even if the orders don't make sense.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Perhaps it has something to do with rights enumerated within the Constitution that cannot should not be overridden by laws.

    Driving is a privilege not covered by the Constitution but rather governed by laws.

    Someone in the military that long should be used to following orders (get out of the vehicle) even if the orders don't make sense.
    "But I'm not driving; I'm travelling."


    :):
     

    flightsimmer

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Dec 27, 2008
    3,943
    149
    S.E. Indy
    I'm in the vehicle being pursued at night, I see a lighted area ahead, I should have turned on my 4way lights but didn't think of it at the time.

    I roll down the window as I pull to a stop so I can talk to and hear the policeman who is behind me, he says to me stick both hands out the window so I do, so then he says get out of the car, WHOA THERE, wait a minute, if I reach inside to unfasten my seatbelt he might just shoot at me, hell no, I'm keeping my hands in full sight. He yells at me to get out of the vehicle but I can't without pulling my hands inside, out of view, hell no that's an excuse to shoot me.
    I can't get out and I can't unlock the door, dam crazy cop is gonna shoot me, I'm in a Catch 22 moment.

    Finally the cops get close enough to see my hands while I unlock and open the door and take off my seatbelt, then they tell me to get down and lay on the ground. Now you've got me, I have no idea why he wouldn't or possibly couldn't comply.

    Clearly the cop was pi**ed and was on an adrenaline high, I too would be afraid he would shoot me just for the he** of it. You read about this quite often anymore.

    Put the cop on desk duty until he learns to think like the person he's giving orders to. And yes, it was a bad stop, he had a licence plate displayed in the rear window, I see it all the time.
     
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