Winchester 1897 redo

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  • 92FSTech

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    She's a beauty!

    Thanks for the excellent write-up! I did an old excel single-shot break-barrel shotgun that I inherited from my grandpa a number of years ago, and I followed a similar process but I had to dig up the details from all over the place, and believe I missed a few steps. Your write-up puts it all together in great detail, including some products that I'd not heard of before and now feel the need to go out and acquire. I've got a couple of old rifles in my safe that could really benefit from this treatment...you've inspired me to add them to my list of winter projects!
     

    Mongo59

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    Thanks Mongo! That was a lot of fun to read. I have never heard of Tung oil, but I will look into getting some.
    The Minwax actually has a low amount of Tung oil in it but works well on firearms and is super easy to repair boo boos. On old military stuff I actually like Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO). It has less gloss and if you use the actual BLO on the steel wool on the initial rubbing instead of WD40 you are done after the initial cleaning. Just wipe off the dirty and scrub and when clean just wipe and let dry. Tung oil dries too fast for this...
     

    Mongo59

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    I have decided to put the Black Diamond stock on this one that I picked up at a gun show last year. I am in the process of Tung oiling that stock which is an English straight neck that still has the semi crescent butt. I think this gun is a good candidate and I was wanting to see how the Diamond stock turns out anyway. I think it was $25 well spent, it has a beautiful grain I found when cleaned up and the checkering still feels good in the hand...

    Pics to come later
     

    Slow Hand

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    The Minwax actually has a low amount of Tung oil in it but works well on firearms and is super easy to repair boo boos. On old military stuff I actually like Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO). It has less gloss and if you use the actual BLO on the steel wool on the initial rubbing instead of WD40 you are done after the initial cleaning. Just wipe off the dirty and scrub and when clean just wipe and let dry. Tung oil dries too fast for this...
    Good read in all. I’ve done a few older guns and am about to start on the Trapdoor in my post. I was wondering why you used ting oil vs BLO. I like BLO on my older hunting shotguns and usually give them a post bird season wipe down.
    One tip/trick that I will add…. It was popular ‘back in the day’ to spruce up an old gun. Throwing a coat of varnish or shellac on the wood, often times without taking it apart and getting it on the metal as well. Carburetor cleaner in the spray cans is designed to remove the ‘varnish’ that is left when gas evaporates. It does an excellent job of stripping wood varnish as well. I soray it on a rag and wipe the surface well. It evaporates very quick so sometimes it take a lot of vigorous rubbing to soften up and dissolve the varnish. It will leave the wood clean and thirsty, as you say, ready for a few coats of BLO.
     

    Mongo59

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    Good read in all. I’ve done a few older guns and am about to start on the Trapdoor in my post. I was wondering why you used ting oil vs BLO. I like BLO on my older hunting shotguns and usually give them a post bird season wipe down.
    One tip/trick that I will add…. It was popular ‘back in the day’ to spruce up an old gun. Throwing a coat of varnish or shellac on the wood, often times without taking it apart and getting it on the metal as well. Carburetor cleaner in the spray cans is designed to remove the ‘varnish’ that is left when gas evaporates. It does an excellent job of stripping wood varnish as well. I soray it on a rag and wipe the surface well. It evaporates very quick so sometimes it take a lot of vigorous rubbing to soften up and dissolve the varnish. It will leave the wood clean and thirsty, as you say, ready for a few coats of BLO.
    I use BLO but mostly on military. It dries slower and takes more time between coats. Tung was considered interchangeable with the manufacturers back in the day.

    When I do the first wipe of a fresh cleaned stock you can actually feel the Tung being absorbed by it being less and less slick. BLO is usually like putting gun oil on metal, it just feels wet and slick. I also tend to get the result to shine better with Tung, BLO is more of a glow. When it comes time for the 3rd coat on BLO don't try my booger hooker method, it will just disappoint you with a gummy sticky surface.

    In the long run, it is just me and my qwerks...
     

    Slow Hand

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    I use BLO but mostly on military. It dries slower and takes more time between coats. Tung was considered interchangeable with the manufacturers back in the day.

    When I do the first wipe of a fresh cleaned stock you can actually feel the Tung being absorbed by it being less and less slick. BLO is usually like putting gun oil on metal, it just feels wet and slick. I also tend to get the result to shine better with Tung, BLO is more of a glow. When it comes time for the 3rd coat on BLO don't try my booger hooker method, it will just disappoint you with a gummy sticky surface.

    In the long run, it is just me and my qwerks...
    I learned to rub BLO in by hand. They say the heat from
    Your hands helps it absorb. I’m working on a couple of hiking sticks for my son and I and I got about 8-10 coats before it started staying sticky. That’s my cue that it’s absorbed as much as I wants to. I’ll hit it with some steel wool or fine scotch brute to knock the gum off and it’s good for awhile.
     

    Born2vette

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    You can pick up the dry speed of both Tung and Linseed oils with a little Cobalt napthanate, also known as Japan drier.
    Although I have not tried on firearms, on woodworking projects I use BLO mixed with mineral spirits 1:1. Speeds up the drying and can usually do a coat every 12 hours. Leaves a smooth non sticky surface that can be touched up as needed. Its my favorite finish for boxes and such.
     

    Mongo59

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    Although I have not tried on firearms, on woodworking projects I use BLO mixed with mineral spirits 1:1. Speeds up the drying and can usually do a coat every 12 hours. Leaves a smooth non sticky surface that can be touched up as needed. Its my favorite finish for boxes and such.
    That is about what the Minwax Tung oil does right out of the can. I have found I like working with the older stuff than a freshly open can. It seems easier to control and read what it is doing.
     

    Mongo59

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    This is with the Black Diamond stock attached. The one on the top is a Steven's 522 Trap I just got done. It is an interesting gun, it was made from 1908-1916 and cost $40 back then. That was a chunk of money! In 1909 the average daily income was $1.50...

    DSC05966.JPG
    DSC05967.JPG
     
    Last edited:

    TheJoker

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    There are only three main pieces inside the receiver. The hammer/carrier group, the bolt and the trigger group. Take off the stock, push out the trigger pivot pin and move the trigger housing backwards and it is out. Remove the small screw to the right of the hammer and push the hammer/carrier group pivot pin out. The carrier slides out the bottom. Look through the ejection port and low on the front of the bolt is a screw, remove it and the action rod hook comes off allowing the bolt to be pulled out the rear of the receiver.

    The place of interest is the top of the trigger group and the bottom of the carrier group. If there is crap in there it will limit the travel and shorten the stroke. Your problem could be assessed by taking off the stock, push out the trigger pivot and moving/tapping the trigger housing backward. Once the trigger group is out you can see both areas of interest.
    Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman!

    I took my Norinco out to the farm for some shooting and additional diagnostics Saturday, I'm pretty convinced the right extractor is just completely gone. I'm guessing there's a spring and plunger that is also gone. Do you have any pictures of those parts. Or just a good close up of them on the bolt?

    ETA: I found a good video that answered most of my questions. So, is the plunger/spring what actually holds the right extractor in place?
     
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    Mongo59

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    There is a spring and a 'pin' or plunger behind the extractor. Pressure keeps it in place. Get a new spring and pin, use the bottom of the extractor to push it back (away from the face of the bolt) and then the extractor will slide away from you into the bolt. This is very common and parts are available.

    The only thing that holds it in place is the head of the pin rides against a small ridge on the back of the extractor. If the ridge gets deformed or wore down it will happen again. I have had it happen once to one of my 1897's.
     

    TheJoker

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    There is a spring and a 'pin' or plunger behind the extractor. Pressure keeps it in place. Get a new spring and pin, use the bottom of the extractor to push it back (away from the face of the bolt) and then the extractor will slide away from you into the bolt. This is very common and parts are available.

    The only thing that holds it in place is the head of the pin rides against a small ridge on the back of the extractor. If the ridge gets deformed or wore down it will happen again. I have had it happen once to one of my 1897's.
    Great. Thanks. I'd seen the parts on a couple of sites; but, I wasn't sure how they interacted. I'll go ahead and order them.

    I used the video in your link to figure out which parts are missing, definitely the spring, plunger and right extractor.
     

    BPNovum

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    Jan 4, 2013
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    Greetings Mongo. Thanks for including our Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner in your project. I am working on an article about Rust Removal for our website and would like to get your permission to use some of your photos and comments. Please contact me via bprice@BlueWonder.us. TY. Bob
     

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