Will Memphis Burn? Man Allegedly Beat to Death, Five Memphis PD Officers Fired

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  • Creedmoor

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    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
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    Madison Co Indiana
    Let's take one for example...

    Sergeant $ 82,960.
    You're saying that's enough? Or perhaps more than enough?

    Well, your thing says "Madison Co". For that area, Yeah, I'd agree.
    I'm up around Rensselaer, so for my area, I'd agree.
    For INDY... That Sgt, probably been with the dept a while, and got a family by now... he or she is probably struggling.
    I have a 125 year old 2 story historical home on 1.5 acers.
    My mortgage is < $800 a month.
    But... like I said... that's my area.
    Also, I've had the place since BEFORE I got blowed up, and retired from the Army as a cripple, so interest rates were better then.
    My boy, in the Indy area, and his pals (plural, 4 of 'em) have to pool together to rent a house, and he's STILL paying more that I am.

    To SHARE RENT.

    I can't say what the pay SHOULD be, but I'm saying that pretty much every department is underpaid. IMHO.
    It's a wrongly undervalued profession.
    You think that Sergents don't work overtime?
    Court date OT or a Security gig in a liqueur store or a bar for 30-50 bucks a hour?
    For a kid thats 21 with a HS diploma to bust 50 grand the first year is a damn good pay.
    Third year over 70 with perf, good benifits and overtime?
    Thats better money than most 4 year Engineer's start at. Better than most Union Smilled Trades make at 3 years into a Journeymen Ship.
    What about those that get a take home car.
     

    Denny347

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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    Napganistan
    You think that Sergents don't work overtime?
    Court date OT or a Security gig in a liqueur store or a bar for 30-50 bucks a hour?
    For a kid thats 21 with a HS diploma to bust 50 grand the first year is a damn good pay.
    Third year over 70 with perf, good benifits and overtime?
    Thats better money than most 4 year Engineer's start at. Better than most Union Smilled Trades make at 3 years into a Journeymen Ship.
    What about those that get a take home car.
    It's retention. IMPD is having a real problem keeping officers with less than 10 years on. Neighboring departments with a fraction of the run load and few "dangerous" residents are now paying what IMPD pay. PLUS new vehicles and other equipment. So once this contract expires, the CIty will have to agree to a SIGNIFICANT bump in pay across the board just to retain officers, maybe attract new ones. The department is nearing a staffing crisis with no relief is sight.

    I really don't care that these other jobs pay less. No one is rushing to the line to get hired as a police officer. Once there were thousands of applicants for a 70 person recruit class but now that is down to about 200. You do that math. I'm not seeing tradesmen or engineers leaving their "low paying" jobs to work for us.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    If these officers knew they were being recorded, and they did know, it suggest they believed there actions to be within bounds or otherwise explainable.

    Maybe. But people make bad decisions and groups of people sometimes make worse decisions because of mob mentality, shared blame, etc. Cops are people. It's very very difficult to be exposed to so much filth and trauma, to do so while sleep deprived, to do so while feeling the people you're protecting hate you, etc. and still make every decision like Sir Galahad. One of the absolute best things departments have done is address that and realize nobody is 100% so watch out for your buddies who are about to blow their stack. Cops and soldiers kill themselves a lot, comparatively. Let's not pretend every decision is well thought out, rational, and with the long term consequences considered. In accordance with my rule of "don't **** with people you don't know, because you don't know what edge they are dancing on" , just applied to police specifically for this context.

    Its an active skill to let go of ego, to decide what to give a **** about and what not to, and the younger you are the harder it is to do. I think some departments are better than others about personnel selection, culture acclimation for accepting help, etc. IMPD has it's faults, but post-Bisard they took some valuable lessons and applied them. IMO, officers exposed to trauma are treated better, generally, today than they were at the beginning of my career. Not always, but they try.

    This isn't to excuse what they did before anyone goes that route. Its a simple explainer that people often do things they know aren't right, or would know if they were thinking right, even if they rationally know they are likely to get caught.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Southside Indy
    One of the clips that WTHR showed tonight showed the cop holding his pistol sideways. I wonder if he was one of the ones that was a former gang member. At least he used a support hand instead of holding it up over his head. :):
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    You think that Sergents don't work overtime?
    Court date OT or a Security gig in a liqueur store or a bar for 30-50 bucks a hour?
    For a kid thats 21 with a HS diploma to bust 50 grand the first year is a damn good pay.

    I don't see a lot of 21 year old kids with a high school diploma making it, and never have. Typically you need military, college, or some significant life experience. But as hiring standards lower, maybe you'll see more of them. And everyone knows how great at problem solving in complex situations under severe stress 21 year old high school grads are as a group. Nothing to go wrong there.

    Policing is not like the military where you can take a bunch of dumbasses, stick them with an NCO, and let the NCO de-dumbass them over time before their general dumbassery causes significant issue. Policing requires a lot more decision making independently and with more complex parameters than most enlisted meatheads are doing. Says a former enlisted meathead dumbass and security contractor.

    That said, while pay is part of it there's also the social contract. Like the military, you can throw money at people to an extent, but if they don't think they'll live to spend it, are afraid they'll be imprisoned or abandoned for it, or will be **** on by society at large for it, money becomes a very secondary concern. Police used to not have to compete on pay because prestige and social standing compensated for some of it, much like soldiers. No longer on either front. Now there's $50k signing bonuses for soldiers and they are still way off goals. Police are the same. Our political structure and media has undermined our institutions to the point that qualified candidates are repelled.
     

    XMil

    Shooter
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    May 20, 2009
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    Columbus
    to do so while feeling the people you're protecting hate you
    Honest question: If they do, why do you think that might be?

    I'll give some idea where I'm coming from. If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them. NWA didn't write a song called F**K the Fire Dept....*





    *That song exists, but it's a parody
     

    bobzilla

    Mod in training (in my own mind)
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    Brownswhitanon.
    Honest question: If they do, why do you think that might be?

    I'll give some idea where I'm coming from. If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them. NWA didn't write a song called F**K the Fire Dept....*





    *That song exists, but it's a parody
    If you hate the police that much step up and do the job. Obviously you think it can’t be that hard right?
     

    Denny347

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    I'll give some idea where I'm coming from. If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them. NWA didn't write a song called F**K the Fire Dept....*
    "If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them" for a street officer who busts their butts everyday doing their best, it's a concept they cannot understand. I don't understand "HATE". Hating people/a person is dangerous and unproductive. You can hate things and situations, but not people. At least that is how I was raised.
     

    XMil

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    "If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them" for a street officer who busts their butts everyday doing their best, it's a concept they cannot understand. I don't understand "HATE". Hating people/a person is dangerous and unproductive. You can hate things and situations, but not people. At least that is how I was raised.
    I have to say I don't understand how your response relates to my question.
     

    Route 45

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    92   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
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    Indy
    Honest question: If they do, why do you think that might be?

    I'll give some idea where I'm coming from. If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them. NWA didn't write a song called F**K the Fire Dept....*





    *That song exists, but it's a parody
    I'm sure the media has nothing to do with shaping public perception. I mean, a large, loud segment of society is easily manipulated by a steady stream of rage porn telling them how dire things are. Chicken Little isn't someone to be mocked anymore, he's the lead editor in the newsroom. Hell, it's gotten so bad that some are actually basing their realities on gangsta rap songs!

    "Bang ho's, bust caps, smoke blunts, **** da police and get money" is a long way from Socrates, homie.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Honest question: If they do, why do you think that might be?

    I'll give some idea where I'm coming from. If they (we I guess) felt that police where there protecting them, they probably wouldn't hate them. NWA didn't write a song called F**K the Fire Dept....*





    *That song exists, but it's a parody

    A ton of reasons. Some more valid than others. Not something I'm going to try and do a bumper sticker version for a forum as anything I say in this short format will be simplistic to the point of simply being wrong or subject to the reader's interpretation to the point it will be a time sink I'm unwilling to engage in.
     

    XMil

    Shooter
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    A ton of reasons. Some more valid than others. Not something I'm going to try and do a bumper sticker version for a forum as anything I say in this short format will be simplistic to the point of simply being wrong or subject to the reader's interpretation to the point it will be a time sink I'm unwilling to engage in.
    As far as I know, there is no space limit here. Hell, PM me, I'll give you my email address, write me a letter ( I'll send you a self addressed, stamped envelope).
     

    bobzilla

    Mod in training (in my own mind)
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    2   0   0
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    Brownswhitanon.
    As far as I know, there is no space limit here. Hell, PM me, I'll give you my email address, write me a letter ( I'll send you a self addressed, stamped envelope).
    I’m just waiting for you to step up and put your money where your mouth is since it’s so easy.
     

    ditcherman

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    22   0   0
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    In the country, hopefully.
    You think that Sergents don't work overtime?
    Court date OT or a Security gig in a liqueur store or a bar for 30-50 bucks a hour?
    For a kid thats 21 with a HS diploma to bust 50 grand the first year is a damn good pay.
    Third year over 70 with perf, good benifits and overtime?
    Thats better money than most 4 year Engineer's start at. Better than most Union Smilled Trades make at 3 years into a Journeymen Ship.
    What about those that get a take home car.
    What is going on here lol?
    I think this is the part where I bring up teacher pay.
     

    firecadet613

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    Dec 24, 2012
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    You think that Sergents don't work overtime?
    Court date OT or a Security gig in a liqueur store or a bar for 30-50 bucks a hour?
    For a kid thats 21 with a HS diploma to bust 50 grand the first year is a damn good pay.
    Third year over 70 with perf, good benifits and overtime?
    Thats better money than most 4 year Engineer's start at. Better than most Union Smilled Trades make at 3 years into a Journeymen Ship.
    What about those that get a take home car.

    Or be a fast food general manager at 21 with a HS diploma bust 50 grand and not deal with the BS cops deal with...
     
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