Will Memphis Burn? Man Allegedly Beat to Death, Five Memphis PD Officers Fired

[JCSR]

Thanks. She sounds stable.

The ultimate team player.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The ultimate team player.

Quite literally taking one for the team.

 

[BugI02]

I’m just curious about the expectations some have for how this thread would go.

My expectation was that the OP was out buying marshmallows

 

[d.kaufman]

Quite literally taking one from the whole team.

Ftfy

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Well, this didn’t age well.

 

[Leadeye]

I can't tell from the videos, is the pepper sprayed officer who left the initial stop and went to the takedown scene involved or arrive there late?

 

[Creedmoor]

I live about 5 miles south of Memphis, TN in Horn Lake, MS. I try my best not to enter Memphis city limits. If I have to go there it's only during daylight hours and week days. I may stop at a restaurant for a to go order after it's been called in.
My granddaughter works at a small shop on Goodman Rd next to Gateway Tires in Horn Lake. Friday at 7 pm she closed the shop, had to wait for people to move their cars to exit the parking lot. It's a 4 miles trip home and took her an extra 20 minutes to get here. Said there were lots of people on the curbs at Goodman and Hwy 51, lots of police too.
Horn Lake has a rule, can protest all you want, don't step in the street to do so. Disrupting traffic, $200 fine.
Watching the video of the traffic stop why did the cop jerk Tyre out of the car in traffic? Why wasn't he told to pull to the side of the road?
Watching the video of the I-55 closure why did people travel to Main St along Carolina instead of Crump Blvd? I guess there is nothing along Crump and Carolina is loaded with housing.
Can't find the news feed now. One of the cops was president of a college fraternity. New members were pretty much beat to death when joining.

I have a few friends that lived in Horn Lake that worked for Dover Elevator years ago, beautiful place. I have family in Olive Branch, Sardis, Cotton Plant/Ripley and Jackson.

 

[jamil]

Well, this didn’t age well.

Wait. White officers use force far more often than black or Hispanic? Is that true? Or is it assumed.

 

[JEBland]

Wait. White officers use force far more often than black or Hispanic? Is that true? Or is it assumed.

It is apparently a thing:

Black, Hispanic and female police use force less often than white male officers

A case study of Chicago policing suggests that diversifying to include more Black, Hispanic and female officers may improve how civilians are treated.

www.sciencenews.org

The article says that they don't know why there's a disparity, and certainly INGO doesn't need the disparity=/=discrimination argument, so I'll skip it. It seems there's a difference in outcomes, and rather than test the hypothesis, some people just jump to the conclusion. As an aside, one very liberal friend of mine just kept repeating "we just don't have the data to know" when figuratively backed into a corner with respect to disparities in education - it was more frustrating than satisfying.

The data I'd seen quoted before (and don't have at the moment) suggested that officers were more likely to use force against suspects of their own race than other races, but I'm not sure about general differences. This is I think more interesting to me. Offhand there are two obvious ways to read into it:
The same cop in the same district either

1. Sees the racial similarity/difference and treats people of the same race more harshly (a "don't make us look bad" interpretation) or
2. Implicitly knows that there's a perceived difference in the public when use-of-force, any force, crosses racial lines ("the public will think this makes me bad" interpretation).

Since that controls for the officer's race, it wouldn't suggest discrepancy in commission of offenses by race, which also exist, probably due to some more of that white cis male hegemony. (Not purple, I'm glad Firefox tells me that cis isn't a word.)

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Wait. White officers use force far more often than black or Hispanic? Is that true? Or is it assumed.

True... "from a certain point of view".




Because there are far more... (wait for it)... white officers.
See how that works?

Besides, it's a political talking point, so truth doesn't really come into the equation now does it?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Im curious. Has anyone done a study on citizen/"victim" behavior as it relates to abusive acts by officers?

I know one of the studies shows that whites are shot and killed at a higher rate than minorities. At least it used to be a stat cited often. And for years it was ignored. But has anyone looked at victim behaviors that may have led up to abuses? In other words, behavior of an officer doesn't happen in a vacuum. How many of those receiving what they are calling inappropriate levels of force "deserved it/asked for it"? (sorry cant think of a better term)

In other words, how many times did a black man get a beatdown "just because", because his demeanor leading up to it was purely "yes sir, no sir" and giving full compliance vs. copping an attitude with the officers? Including fleeing and resisting. ("F-you! You only pulled me over because I'm black, I didnt do nothin wrong!" even though he was popped for doing 90 on 465 for instance.)

I doubt anything like that has been done because it would be perceived as racist and trying to justify bad officer behavior.

And I am by no means saying the mouthy runner deserves a beating. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[HoosierLife]

Im curious. Has anyone done a study on citizen/"victim" behavior as it relates to abusive acts by officers?

I know one of the studies shows that whites are shot and killed at a higher rate than minorities. At least it used to be a stat cited often. And for years it was ignored. But has anyone looked at victim behaviors that may have led up to abuses? In other words, behavior of an officer doesn't happen in a vacuum. How many of those receiving what they are calling inappropriate levels of force "deserved it/asked for it"? (sorry cant think of a better term)

In other words, how many times did a black man get a beatdown "just because", because his demeanor leading up to it was purely "yes sir, no sir" and giving full compliance vs. copping an attitude with the officers? Including fleeing and resisting. ("F-you! You only pulled me over because I'm black, I didnt do nothin wrong!" even though he was popped for doing 90 on 465 for instance.)

I doubt anything like that has been done because it would be perceived as racist and trying to justify bad officer behavior.

And I am by no means saying the mouthy runner deserves a beating. Don't put words in my mouth.

We all know the answer.

With the continued distruction of the family unit and the lack of stable father figures in these “youths” lives, they develop no respect for authority.

Then you have the other side who’s pride gets hurt when people that should show them, at least, common courtesy, instead get vitriol and hate.

When someone else’s 8 year old kid back talks or disrespects me, (I never act on it), but I really want to teach them a lesson in discipline.

Multiply both of those factors by 100x when dealing with some minority youths and any non-level headed/impatient police officer, and it’s a recipe for a disaster.

Pray for me. After watching my son’s first basketball game (2nd grade homeschool league with all volunteer coaches), I decided the only lady coach, coaching boys no less, that is coaching my son needs some help.

We lost 64-14. We were both spotted 10 points smh.

We had no aggression, couldn’t dribble, pass, shoot, or rebound.

The other team was 100x better and we would have never won, but our boys weren’t even going for the ball.

It was like they were being too nice. “Oh you want the ball? There you go…”

One of the boys was crying on the court. The lady coach checked on him to make sure he wasn’t hurt.

He wasn’t. Well, not physically.

Then she hugged him on the court, in front of God and everyone.

I get it. She’s a nurturer. Can’t help it.

I signed up to help her coach after this.

I know next to nothing about basketball. But I can coach them to go for it, hustle, and be aggressive.

This whole issue was because not enough men stood up and some mom had to coach an all boys 2nd grade team.

In Center Grove suburbia…

Men just aren’t stepping up for anything anymore.

And the next generation suffers for it.

So, say hi to Coach HoosierLife!

 

[JEBland]

Im curious. Has anyone done a study on citizen/"victim" behavior as it relates to abusive acts by officers?

I know one of the studies shows that whites are shot and killed at a higher rate than minorities. At least it used to be a stat cited often. And for years it was ignored. But has anyone looked at victim behaviors that may have led up to abuses? In other words, behavior of an officer doesn't happen in a vacuum. How many of those receiving what they are calling inappropriate levels of force "deserved it/asked for it"? (sorry cant think of a better term)

In other words, how many times did a black man get a beatdown "just because", because his demeanor leading up to it was purely "yes sir, no sir" and giving full compliance vs. copping an attitude with the officers? Including fleeing and resisting. ("F-you! You only pulled me over because I'm black, I didnt do nothin wrong!" even though he was popped for doing 90 on 465 for instance.)

I doubt anything like that has been done because it would be perceived as racist and trying to justify bad officer behavior.

And I am by no means saying the mouthy runner deserves a beating. Don't put words in my mouth.

There's not been much effort to go incident-by-incident to build the datasets for statistics. Most go top-down and factor for location, etc. That factorization then becomes dependent on how you slice the data. The very liberal friends of mine in college all firmly believe that the majority of police shootings are unjustified, so most social justice types don't seem to be keen on the idea of really digging into the data - and why would they, they get the right answer on the first try.

In terms of shootings, there doesn't seem to be a difference in racial groups, but poverty seems to affect it (with the analysis by Roland Fryer, below). Unsurprising really, the wealthier a person is, the more likely they're to be taught to not be a horse's rear to officers in life-threatening circumstances and to intensify the situations.

There's a great episode of Uncommon Knowledge regarding policing with Rafael Mangual and Roland Fryer:


Fryer found that in non-lethal encounters, there does seem to be a disparity in use of force, which includes say police putting their hands on you. Where you draw the line there could be a subject of debate, but he is much more level-headed about it than most researchers on the topic. Fryer references conversations where he was told to keep that non-racially discriminating shooting business to himself. He came to these when look at police reports, which of course skews the data (but to what degree? another question the SJWs don't seemingly want to answer).

In addition to Fryer, I'd also suggest looking at some of the work by Wilfred Reilly for an attempt to keep things on a "can we actually measure this" basis.

Edit: This seems to be my second aside post for the "Will Memphis Burn?" thread. Sorry folks!

 

[Cameramonkey]

We all know the answer.

In Center Grove suburbia…

PEOPLE just aren’t stepping up for anything anymore.

And the next generation suffers for it.

So, say hi to Coach HoosierLife!

FIFY. Our church has the same problem. Out of 75 people, its always the same core 6 that do everything. Everybody else shows up, worships, throws money/donations at the problem and goes home. The only time they actually do something is when they have to bring food for a pot luck. And thats only because they get to eat others' food.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And of course if we were able to give a statistical reason why our cops are getting out of hand, maybe... just maybe, we could apply pressure to "our" (citizen) side of the equation to "do better".

 

[canebreaker]

Memphis cop Demetrius Haley, who was charged in Tyre Nichols’ death, previously beat up prison inmate: lawsuit

 

[JEBland]

And of course if we were able to give a statistical reason why our cops are getting out of hand, maybe... just maybe, we could apply pressure to "our" (citizen) side of the equation to "do better".

I question the statement that they are (on average) getting out of hand.

There are ~20k agencies at the various scales. From the abstract of that article, over 800,000 LEOs (law enforcement officers) and ~137,000 feds, leaving over 600,000 local LEOs. 600,000 officers and millions of contacts with civilians per day.

So, over 600k local officers alone, and we have ~23 unarmed whites and ~18 unarmed blacks per year killed (see that Wilfred Reilly interview), let alone how many of those are justified upon further investigation. Then, we hear about these rare events over and over for months on the news. Of course, those rare instances still need to be brought to light, investigated, and taken to court when appropriate. We should seek individualized justice if we're serious about justice.

No, it's not perfect, but we as humans have never lived in a time that holds police more accountable than now. Interestingly, the mass introduction of bodycams & additional cameras resulted in a decrease in officer convictions (whether or not that's because it turns out some people lie to frame officers or because the video is used to provide any possible excuse is at some level a matter of interpretation).

 

[manifest destiny]

Comply or die isn't good policing. These officers were wrong, deadly wrong. Their superiors said they were wrong. They were arrested. They will be prosecuted and tried for their crimes. Riots, in the name of justice, shouldn't occur in this instance. The wrong-doers are being addressed, isn't this how the system should work? Do wrong and suffer the consequences? The videos are sick. The actions of the officers are sick. They should be held to account and they are. Comply or die is bad policing.

 

[jamil]

Who cares about Memphis. Philadelphia riots will put Memphis to shame.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Who cares about Memphis. Philadelphia riots will put Memphis to shame.

Because the Eagles are going to the Super Bowl?