Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[phylodog]

They sure don’t seem harder to sell by the stats published.

You've already stated that stats and surveys are notoriously unreliable. Why do you insist on bringing them back into the discussion if they support your argument? You're trying to use stats to refute someone's real world experience in selling homes. This is why your threads go in circles, its called cognitive bias.

 

[jamil]

Don’t choke…

I somehow wonder if this is sincere. But thanks for the warning whether sincere or not.

 

[jamil]

This runs counter to the fact that the most popular communities in central Indiana Carmel, Fishers, Westfield, Whitestown, Brownsburg, Avon, Greenwood, Franklin Tnshp, and even Decatur Tnshp, have a mostly new construction or newer neighborhoods that all have HOA’s. They sure don’t seem harder to sell by the stats published.

That's not counter. That's lock step with what people have been saying. You have this delusional belief that the homeowner's market is demanding HOA's, and it's not. Most people don't want to live in an HOA, but that market can't drive developers to not require HOA's, because it's not in the developers' interest to do so, and they have buyers over a barrel. If there's an invisible hand, it's uh, pleasing itself.

Good for you! That is the way it should be.


So I am to believe that a building corporation didn’t want to sell the last lot so they could keep the headache of an HOA? I agree they will keep control, if they can, until they are divested of property in the neighborhood.

Why would it not work that way everywhere as SM said it does? The incentives are there for milking homeowners. You make out like developers are just benevolent land owners who have rights to **** people for a living. You know what they call people who **** people for a living. Yeah. Ho's.

There are few half acre lots in modern neighborhoods. They are building green spaces in the neighborhood and putting homes with 3000-7000 foot footprints with garages and outdoor living areas on third acre lots. Maybe at the low end.


Agreed


Very few new neighborhoods are built where the owners are responsible for roads unless the developer screwed up and failed to meet construction standards of the city and they would not take ownership of them. Them owners get screwed. Also many neighborhoods want snow removal at a level beyond what the city provides. Many cities do not plow cul-de-sak until 6 inches. Those owners want plowed sooner.


Good insurance is a must.


Yep, completely reasonable. Glad you have that option. Those neighbors you met may sell to the biggest jerk in the world, there are no guarantees…

You have that risk whether in an HOA or not. And HOA's can't abate jerks. There have been jerks living nearby if not next door in every neighborhood I've lived in. The HOA can't do anything about that. In fact, it's even worse if the jerk becomes association president. Ever see what a jerk does with power?

 

[jamil]

The operative word is should, that is an opinion that doesn’t fly in the real world. So now landowners that don’t want to see a pickup truck should not be allowed to assemble? More rights usurpation…

Assemble to take away rights of the property owner?

Why do you hate property owners so much?

By the things you advocate you keep revealing deep karenistic tendencies. I've never interacted with a person so in love with wielding HOA's power to harass property owners since being on an HOA board.

 

[jamil]

You've already stated that stats and surveys are notoriously unreliable. Why do you insist on bringing them back into the discussion if they support your argument? You're trying to use stats to refute someone's real world experience in selling homes. This is why your threads go in circles, its called cognitive bias.

He uses the ones that he thinks agrees with his beliefs so that he doesn't have to challenge his own thinking. He has this pristine view of the supply side while hating the consumer side. Because they like to drive trucks and park them in their driveways. Oh, will someone rid him of the jerks who dare to change their own oil on their own property.

 

[Ingomike]

Do you know how the landscaping company your HOA uses got the gig? Snow removal?

I do. I have been on the board several times.

 

[Ingomike]

Of course there could be a clubhouse that needs maintained, pool, street lights,walking trails... every feature a neighborhood has that is run by a HOA is another chance at more grift. That is the hard reality. Even who can pick up the trash.

That is the reality of all human interaction.

 

[Ingomike]

You've already stated that stats and surveys are notoriously unreliable. Why do you insist on bringing them back into the discussion if they support your argument? You're trying to use stats to refute someone's real world experience in selling homes. This is why your threads go in circles, its called cognitive bias.

The only cognitive bias is refusing to acknowledge that what you want in the name of freedom, actually takes freedom by those saying it does not take freedom. Please show where I said stats? Do you trust surveys that say majorities want guns outlawed? Most surveys on websites, are even not professional polls, they are just questions answered by those who visit their website that are willing to take the time to respond. Is that a representative sample? Then they publish those surveys with headlines to get clicks.

Stats from the real estate should be reliable as long as the data is from the MLS, which is what most news sources use. Big difference.

 

[Ingomike]

That's not counter. That's lock step with what people have been saying. You have this delusional belief that the homeowner's market is demanding HOA's, and it's not. Most people don't want to live in an HOA, but that market can't drive developers to not require HOA's, because it's not in the developers' interest to do so, and they have buyers over a barrel. If there's an invisible hand, it's uh, pleasing itself.

They sure don’t have any problem selling them as fast as they build them but I am told they are harder to sell. The market overall just does not bear this out. It very well could be true in more rural areas where larger properties are available nearby, but no in the cities or suburbs.

You are still hung up on your survey interpretation. Your own survey had more questions answered positively about HOA’s than negative. You must drag in those that do not live in an HOA to get stats that support your opinion that folks in an HOA do not like it or find value in it.

Why would it not work that way everywhere as SM said it does? The incentives are there for milking homeowners. You make out like developers are just benevolent land owners who have rights to **** people for a living. You know what they call people who **** people for a living. Yeah. Ho's.

Developers usually want to sell fast, get out, and move on to the next project. There are certainly bad apples.

You have that risk whether in an HOA or not. And HOA's can't abate jerks. There have been jerks living nearby if not next door in every neighborhood I've lived in. The HOA can't do anything about that. In fact, it's even worse if the jerk becomes association president. Ever see what a jerk does with power?

Jerks was a catch all to describe those that do not follow the covenants, restrictions, and HOA.

 

[Ingomike]

Assemble to take away rights of the property owner?

An HOA is an association otherwise known as an assembly. The people, by buying in the neighborhood voluntarily agreed to the association, a right you want to take away.

Why do you hate property owners so much?

The same could be asked of you and wanting to take the rights of owners to sell as they wish.

By the things you advocate you keep revealing deep karenistic tendencies. I've never interacted with a person so in love with wielding HOA's power to harass property owners since being on an HOA board.

More like you just have not met a person that understands true freedom…

 

[foszoe]

I do. I have been on the board several times.

No surprise there.

 

[Ingomike]

He uses the ones that he thinks agrees with his beliefs so that he doesn't have to challenge his own thinking. He has this pristine view of the supply side while hating the consumer side. Because they like to drive trucks and park them in their driveways. Oh, will someone rid him of the jerks who dare to change their own oil on their own property.

I think people should be able to live freely as they wish. You guys seem to only want freedom for those who do not want to care for their property, make their property look like an eyesore, have no taste or decorum for what looks nice.

I went to visit some people recently and as I walked up the drive I saw an old car with no hood and fender. They were leaning against the side if the house, the driveway was stained with oil and antifreeze all the way to the street, the house, landscaping and lawn were unkept. The folks were selling to get out, the HOA would not enforce the covenants so they were leaving to get to a neighborhood that did maintain standards.

People that want better should be able to have agreements and enforcement of those agreements and landowners should be able to set those agreements in place. That is freedom as much as is the right to live in a junkyard…

 

[jkaetz]

I want to buy a Silverado with most of the bells and whistles, leather seats, etc. but alas, GM will not build it without it connecting to the internet and telling everything I do to GM who in turn sell that data. I don’t like it, but they cannot force me to buy it. “That leaves little choice for people who” don’t want their truck telling on them but I am not forced to buy, or have my rights taken.

So what truck do you buy when all manufactures engage in the same behavior?

 

[Ingomike]

So what truck do you buy when all manufactures engage in the same behavior?

I buy their older models.

 

[jkaetz]

I buy their older models.

What about when they're outlawed because they can't track the milage you've driven?

 

[Ingomike]

What about when they're outlawed because they can't track the milage you've driven?

Cross that bridge when it gets here…

 

[actaeon277]

Are we still here?


Does anybody know what to time it it is?

Does anybody really care?

 

[actaeon277]

What about when they're outlawed because they can't track the milage you've driven?

Don't forget about manufacturers can EASILY make it so if the antenna is disconnected, the car could be programmed to go to "limp" mode.
5 mph for 5 miles. Then shuts down.

 

[actaeon277]

Get out of my head.

 

[actaeon277]

Are we there yet?