What should an FFL transfer cost?

[KLB]

So they can run an FFL from their home?

Apparently. I don't know the specifics of the law though.

 

[KLB]

We have fleshed out what you guys believe it should cost, now what exactly does the FFL have to provide? I do not believe for a minute that it just takes 10 total minutes to do a transfer. What is involved in providing the service? What equipment is needed? Is a physical location needed? What are the costs of performing a transfer? How much time does it take to complete a transfer?

Did you miss the comment from one in the thread?

I pretty much never had an issue with a customer wanting me to do a transfer for an online purchase, even if it was a gun we had in stock.

I always viewed it as somebody giving me $20-25 for 10 minutes of work, and if they didn’t buy the one I had, the next guy probably will.

 

[marvin02]

If someone has an FFL and are selling guns they have everything they need to do transfers for guns not sold by them, so extra equipment = none.

If you meet the requirements for an FFL, including all federal, state & local laws you can run your FFL business from your home.

If you have ever purchased a gun legally from other than a private sale you have an idea of the time involved for the actual transfer. For pick-ups of online purchase there is the additional step of receiving and storing the gun. In my experience the transfer part can take a few minutes up to about 50 minutes for my longest wait for the approval to come back. The salesperson waited on other customers while we were waiting for the response, so that person was not tied up with me during the wait.

I'm not sure I understand where @Ingomike is going with this thread topic. Are you trying to get feedback because you want to become an FFL and handle transfers?

If you are just looking at pricing, then why should the service of doing a transfer be any different than other services? Price determined by the provider of the service and you can choose to vote with your money where you think the price and service suit your needs.

Pawn King in Merrillville, IN does transfers for $25 with every 5th one free. Range USA charges $75.

 

[Destro]

My guy charges $15 ea.

I think that is ridiculous and usually give him at least $25.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

We have fleshed out what you guys believe it should cost, now what exactly does the FFL have to provide? I do not believe for a minute that it just takes 10 total minutes to do a transfer. What is involved in providing the service? What equipment is needed? Is a physical location needed? What are the costs of performing a transfer? How much time does it take to complete a transfer?

Just a quick list:

1. If the sending FFL doesn't already have it, the receiving FFL will need to send them a copy of their valid license prior to shipping.

2. The shipment comes, the receiving FFL should verify the firearm and enter all of the pertinent information into their acquisition logbook or software and assign it their inventory number.

3. The FFL SHOULD verify the firearm and S/N... if the shipping info and box says S/N 123456, but that's not what's in the box, that's a violation on FFL holding/transferring the firearm if they don't record the ACTUAL SN. Ditto if SN 123456 went somewhere else and ends up in a crime gun search but the records shows you, the FFL transferred it.

3. Must store the firearm per state/federal regulations. If FFL does this at home, likely should have a separate safe only for transfer guns... "those are mine" in the same safe likely would be violations when ATF comes.

4. When you come in, have you fill out the paper or electronic 4473.

5. Run your background check... takes about 5 minutes to login and to type everything into the FBI LEEPS website, not sure what the other options are.

6. Assuming it's an instant PROCEED, finish the 4473 including putting the NTN (NICS transaction number) and their transfer log number.

7. Log all of your information and the firearm information in their paper or electronic disposal log.

8. Best practice is to have a second set of eyes double check everything before releasing the firearm. Any typos or errors, repeat steps 4&6.

If your background check is delayed, or if your state has a waiting period (Illinois), then additional steps.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I use Uncle Rudy's for my transfers.

IIRC, last time was $20 for a complete lower and several stripped lowers... same fee for up to five on one form 4473.

That's a bargain for the work involved! I see it as they offer the service to get people in the door, so I always buy something and have a punch card for their indoor range, etc.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm not sure I understand where @Ingomike is going with this thread topic. Are you trying to get feedback because you want to become an FFL and handle transfers?

I was genuinely curious as it seems to be a hot button here for some. When I see prices complained about I was interested in just what the business side has to do.

 

[Ingomike]

Just a quick list:

1. If the sending FFL doesn't already have it, the receiving FFL will need to send them a copy of their valid license prior to shipping.

2. The shipment comes, the receiving FFL should verify the firearm and enter all of the pertinent information into their acquisition logbook or software and assign it their inventory number.

3. The FFL SHOULD verify the firearm and S/N... if the shipping info and box says S/N 123456, but that's not what's in the box, that's a violation on FFL holding/transferring the firearm if they don't record the ACTUAL SN. Ditto if SN 123456 went somewhere else and ends up in a crime gun search but the records shows you, the FFL transferred it.

3. Must store the firearm per state/federal regulations. If FFL does this at home, likely should have a separate safe only for transfer guns... "those are mine" in the same safe likely would be violations when ATF comes.

4. When you come in, have you fill out the paper or electronic 4473.

5. Run your background check... takes about 5 minutes to login and to type everything into the FBI LEEPS website, not sure what the other options are.

6. Assuming it's an instant PROCEED, finish the 4473 including putting the NTN (NICS transaction number) and their transfer log number.

7. Log all of your information and the firearm information in their paper or electronic disposal log.

8. Best practice is to have a second set of eyes double check everything before releasing the firearm. Any typos or errors, repeat steps 4&6.

If your background check is delayed, or if your state has a waiting period (Illinois), then additional steps.

Great run down!

 

[radar8756]

So they can run an FFL from their home?

They can run them from a Laptop / Tablet / Cellphone as long as they have a Internet connection to submit the paperwork- which is how the Dealers do it at Gun Shows -
( Private Sales are exempt)

 

[WebSnyper]

What steps must a licensee take prior to transferring a firearm to an unlicensed person? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The following steps must be followed prior to transferring a firearm: 1. The licensee must have the transferee complete and sign ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record. 2. The licensee must verify the identity of the transferee through a government–issued photo identification.

www.atf.gov

 

[Ingomike]

Just a quick list:

1. If the sending FFL doesn't already have it, the receiving FFL will need to send them a copy of their valid license prior to shipping.

2. The shipment comes, the receiving FFL should verify the firearm and enter all of the pertinent information into their acquisition logbook or software and assign it their inventory number.

3. The FFL SHOULD verify the firearm and S/N... if the shipping info and box says S/N 123456, but that's not what's in the box, that's a violation on FFL holding/transferring the firearm if they don't record the ACTUAL SN. Ditto if SN 123456 went somewhere else and ends up in a crime gun search but the records shows you, the FFL transferred it.

3. Must store the firearm per state/federal regulations. If FFL does this at home, likely should have a separate safe only for transfer guns... "those are mine" in the same safe likely would be violations when ATF comes.

4. When you come in, have you fill out the paper or electronic 4473.

5. Run your background check... takes about 5 minutes to login and to type everything into the FBI LEEPS website, not sure what the other options are.

6. Assuming it's an instant PROCEED, finish the 4473 including putting the NTN (NICS transaction number) and their transfer log number.

7. Log all of your information and the firearm information in their paper or electronic disposal log.

8. Best practice is to have a second set of eyes double check everything before releasing the firearm. Any typos or errors, repeat steps 4&6.

If your background check is delayed, or if your state has a waiting period (Illinois), then additional steps.

This was what I wanted to see. I see the statements that it takes just a few minutes but that does not account for the behind the scenes work.

Personally I wold not do them for less than $75 or likely a $100 per transfer. I would not even answer the door for $20.

At $20 you would have to do 3000 a year, 60 a week, 12 a day, just to make $60,0000. 12 a day would likely kill a whole day. Who wants to do that, for that? If you do open up, INGO will love you if you are conveniently located…

 

[SheepDog4Life]

This was what I wanted to see. I see the statements that it takes just a few minutes but that does not account for the behind the scenes work.

Personally I wold not do them for less than $75 or likely a $100 per transfer. I would not even answer the door for $20.

At $20 you would have to do 3000 a year, 60 a week, 12 a day, just to make $60,0000. 12 a day would likely kill a whole day. Who wants to do that, for that? If you do open up, INGO will love you if you are conveniently located…

Lol, maybe when I retire from my full time day job.

I work part time a couple nights a week for spending money (i.e. gun and ammo money ) at a local RK.

For single firearm sales, I'd say I (and the store manager) have a total of 15-20 minutes into the firearm in the logistics, the steps I listed... and part of that is just putting into the safe, retrieving from the safe, double checking paperwork and filing it. Multiple fire arm sales just add the time (seconds) to verify the additional SNs.

So, for those 12 guns, I'd say 3 hours, but hustling the whole time.

If it was paper 4473's and logs... no thank you! I'd be cross-eyed after a 4-5 hour shift.

Bottomline: A LGS that does transfer for $20 is being pretty nice to get you into the store... buy something too!

 

[WebSnyper]

This was what I wanted to see. I see the statements that it takes just a few minutes but that does not account for the behind the scenes work.

Personally I wold not do them for less than $75 or likely a $100 per transfer. I would not even answer the door for $20.

At $20 you would have to do 3000 a year, 60 a week, 12 a day, just to make $60,0000. 12 a day would likely kill a whole day. Who wants to do that, for that? If you do open up, INGO will love you if you are conveniently located…

On the other hand, they don't have to hold any inventory or have any funds tied up other than they already do to facilitate that transaction. If it is a retail LGS or FFL who also carries inventory, it can drive traffic into your retail front end. The FFL can control the hours if they want to, during which they will handle transfers, etc (even by appt).

It all depends on how an FFL has positioned themselves and what the opportunity cost is for them to doing that transaction. Of course there is some overhead in receiving product and handling FFL transfers, but not a lot that an FFL is not already doing.

If an FFL has time on his hands, and wants to drive additional $$, it's a service that they can generally supply without a significant investment beyond what they have already made to be an FFL.

If FFL is an established shop and finds that doing transfers is taking away from from a more profitable area of your business that you are focused on, don't do them, or raise the price accordingly.

If FFL needs some extra $$ to come in and can't invest much or have the appropriate credit lines to fund inventory, then offer transfers at a reasonable cost, etc. It's entirely up to the FFL on what they want to offer on that front. Free market.

 

[Ingomike]

On the other hand, they don't have to hold any inventory or have any funds tied up other than they already do to facilitate that transaction. If it is a retail LGS or FFL who also carries inventory, it can drive traffic into your retail front end. The FFL can control the hours if they want to, during which they will handle transfers, etc (even by appt).

It all depends on how an FFL has positioned themselves and what the opportunity cost is for them to doing that transaction. Of course there is some overhead in receiving product and handling FFL transfers, but not a lot that an FFL is not already doing.

If an FFL has time on his hands, and wants to drive additional $$, it's a service that they can generally supply without a significant investment beyond what they have already made to be an FFL.

If FFL is an established shop and finds that doing transfers is taking away from from a more profitable area of your business that you are focused on, don't do them, or raise the price accordingly.

If FFL needs some extra $$ to come in and can't invest much or have the appropriate credit lines to fund inventory, then offer transfers at a reasonable cost, etc. It's entirely up to the FFL on what they want to offer on that front. Free market.

Absolutely! I am repeatedly amazed at the complaints I see on INGO about FFL fees, and providers and wanted to understand the situation.

 

[kjdoski]

I used to pay $15 at a guy that I think stopped doing transfers. Recently been using a brick and mortar FFL who charges $20 - completely reasonable. I would LOVE to buy all my guns from local brick and mortar stores, but can't afford to pay the increased costs. I know they have overhead, and I don't begrudge the fact that they are in business to make money, but I haven't seen a single firearm in a local store that wasn't 25-100% higher priced than what I can find online with 5 minutes work.

 

[N9Zero]

I forgot to add the question, how much time does it take to complete a transfer?

Now added to original post…

$10 at Logansport FFL at Downham & Son's

 

[kjdoski]

Time required to complete the transfer varies. Buyer has to fill out the paperwork - either wet ink or on a computer system. If the former, the FFL has to call NICS, related all the information on the 4473 verbally to them, and wait for a response. The computer based systems transmit the data electronically, with automated responses from NICS.

The two missing factors are (1) how busy is NICS when the FFL is trying to do the check (wait times can vary wildly, especially for phone calls), and (2) anything other than a "proceed" response from NICS.

 

[DK Firearms]

Paperwork storage is also an issue in different states. For instance here in VA we can't do electronic 4473's because we are a POC state and the VA State Police handle the background checks. So each paper 4473 has to be stored. We also have to store the VA State form for two years.

In addition to storage, each transfer amounts to at least one acquisition entry and one disposition entry in your bound book. That coupled with the 4473 add up to three items the ATF can look over during an audit and maybe find errors. Even if your error percentage is low, when you multiply that over 1000's of transactions it still adds up to a significant number of mistakes that the ATF can find. Creating the need for internal compliance audits, to double check and eventually triple check for mistakes.

Also if you are filling out a used firearm report for the ATF, every used firearm transaction (in VA private sales are limited by law and have to go through an FFL), is another entry on the ATF report.

Another factor is your overhead, and insurance cost. This is easier for a home based dealer with little to no inventory (that's how we started out), as their insurance for inventory and liability are much much lower.

And if your FFL is receiving multiple shipments a day from suppliers, receiving transfers cuts into that time and effort.

It's a balancing act with transfers, we find our $35.00 transfer fee (middle of the road in our area), makes it worth our time and effort, but doesn't interfere with taking care of online and instore customers.

 

[xwing]

I usually pay $15 or $20. And yes, an FFL can do it from their home. I've almost always transferred at home-based FFLs b/c they are usually cheaper.

 

[MinuteManMike]

I don't begrudge any FFL charging whatever they want. They have legal exposure for the transaction, even if the idiot feds approve something they shouldn't.

I believe I even read that a guy filling out the wrong birth county caused a FFL to lose their license. How the HELL is a FFL going to know if that county given by the buyer is valid or not?