What drills did you run this week and how did you do?

[cedartop]

I had an IDPA match today, so this report will be a bit of a hodgepodge as I ran IDPA drills Yesterday (Q5) and carry guns today. The rest of this week I plan to try to hit the range every night but only 50 rds per session. Holiday Havoc is coming up on Friday for me.

Lets start with the RM DOTM Oct. as I did that coldish and wow. Let me start by saying even though I am familiar with these targets as I use them for other things, I sorta didn't do that well on this drill. I will be switching my carry gun test from the 5 yard round up, which was getting too easy, to this. I really struggled with this drill using my NPE EDC 365XL. I really had to bear down and still threw some shots. I had to work really hard. Truth be told I have been neglecting that gun being in season for IDPA. Things went ok but not great with my other carry gun the Staccato C2. It was much easier to shoot well, but I did drop a round on the 3R3 when I got the mag hung up on my shirt during the reload so I had to rush to make par. The first shot after the reload paid the price. For unknown reasons I also wiffed one at 10 yards but finished with time on the clock at a 3.16. Using the Q5 and IDPA gear and open front concealment was easy in comparison.



All other drills were with Q5. On the 99 drill I shot ok but didn't have the same awareness I did last time I shot it.

Knowing I want to work on transitions I ran the . This is a good transition drill that doesn't burn a lot of ammo so you can run it for a lot of reps. I chose to run it at 10 yards instead of 7 and although I didn't this time, will also use some SHO and WHO in the future on it. I averaged a 3.10 seconds over the course of 10 runs. Not great, but not horrible. Funny coincidence, I saw this drill shortly after listening to a Ben Stoeger/Scott Jedlinski argument podcast where they talked about transitions and their different viewpoints on them. This Baer Solutions drill definitely fell into the Jedlinski what I will call traditional method of doing transitions versus Bens method. I wish I could explain it here but it is way too involved. If you care find it

After this I ran the Spaulding 9 in 9 on my journey to master that. Still not there and still impressed that at Spauldings age and for a guy who claims to not care about being fast, he can still pass this.

Finished with 7 rounds in the can so I ran those at a 3X5 at 25 goin 6/7.

 

[backtrail540]

Good shooting. I assume you were running a dot gun in which case that is not quite master. You need a 18.47 for CO master. I agree there needs to be another level. It is only going to get worse with the new match bump rules. Laws of attrition will come into place after a while and you will cave people classified as Maters who probably can't even pass Expert on the 5X5. You are also right in thinking you have to shoot it clean. At 1 second per point down, it is really hard to shoot fast enough to make up points.

Thanks for the correction. Is there a public list of times needed by division? The one I saw must've been old.

Yes dot gun. 19 with a holosun concealed in an enigma from under a few layers.

 

[cedartop]

Thanks for the correction. Is there a public list of times needed by division? The one I saw must've been old.

Yes dot gun. 19 with a holosun concealed in an enigma from under a few layers.

IDPA Match Rules

IDPA match rules, classification charts and links to all current IDPA guides

www.idpa.com

 

[gregkl]

We definitely all have those days. I know I do.

Are you running the 99 with a 3X5 or 4X6? You are right if you are not even close you don't want to just throw ammo away and get frustrated. Most drills are scaleable. If you like the drill and think it will be helpful, use an 8 inch circle as your target. Conversely you could add a little time to the pars, just don't make it too easy. You want it to be difficult, but attainable.

4x6. I'm not far off the par times.

Watched a Humble Marksman video tonight and he talked about pushing yourself beyond your capabilities.

I'll try it a few more times. If I don't improve and I'm frustrated, I'll move on.

My neighbor who was pretty competitive in USPSA some years ago gave me several shooting books the other day. One is Perfect Practice by Saul Kirsch. I'm going to check it out and see what kind of drills it has.

 

[gregkl]

I had an IDPA match today, so this report will be a bit of a hodgepodge as I ran IDPA drills Yesterday (Q5) and carry guns today. The rest of this week I plan to try to hit the range every night but only 50 rds per session. Holiday Havoc is coming up on Friday for me.

Lets start with the RM DOTM Oct. as I did that coldish and wow. Let me start by saying even though I am familiar with these targets as I use them for other things, I sorta didn't do that well on this drill. I will be switching my carry gun test from the 5 yard round up, which was getting too easy, to this. I really struggled with this drill using my NPE EDC 365XL. I really had to bear down and still threw some shots. I had to work really hard. Truth be told I have been neglecting that gun being in season for IDPA. Things went ok but not great with my other carry gun the Staccato C2. It was much easier to shoot well, but I did drop a round on the 3R3 when I got the mag hung up on my shirt during the reload so I had to rush to make par. The first shot after the reload paid the price. For unknown reasons I also wiffed one at 10 yards but finished with time on the clock at a 3.16. Using the Q5 and IDPA gear and open front concealment was easy in comparison.

View attachment 228005 View attachment 228006 View attachment 228007

All other drills were with Q5. On the 99 drill I shot ok but didn't have the same awareness I did last time I shot it.

Knowing I want to work on transitions I ran the . This is a good transition drill that doesn't burn a lot of ammo so you can run it for a lot of reps. I chose to run it at 10 yards instead of 7 and although I didn't this time, will also use some SHO and WHO in the future on it. I averaged a 3.10 seconds over the course of 10 runs. Not great, but not horrible. Funny coincidence, I saw this drill shortly after listening to a Ben Stoeger/Scott Jedlinski argument podcast where they talked about transitions and their different viewpoints on them. This Baer Solutions drill definitely fell into the Jedlinski what I will call traditional method of doing transitions versus Bens method. I wish I could explain it here but it is way too involved. If you care find it

After this I ran the Spaulding 9 in 9 on my journey to master that. Still not there and still impressed that at Spauldings age and for a guy who claims to not care about being fast, he can still pass this.

Finished with 7 rounds in the can so I ran those at a 3X5 at 25 goin 6/7.

My brother will be at the Havoc with a contingent from TN. Old Farts or something like that. I doubt you'll miss them.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Saturday I attended the Marty Brown Memorial Open Round #2
in Zionsville.

Shot at 7 yds using a Delta Point Micro on an M&P compact. I think I ended with three 13's, and one with 4 "x"'s. Par time of 70 sec. Though I shot it much quicker.

 

[cedartop]

So continuing on every day live fire until the match. Unfortunately with ammo being what is is these three weekdays will just be 50 rounds a day. Today was marksmanship Monday. At least if I could ever have patience and not be in a hurry that is what it would be.

Started with the Complete Combatant bullseye course. Again, not showing enough patience. Not a terrible score and it didn't get real bad until I heeled my very last shot high right into the 7 ring. Ended up with a 288/300, and apparently I accidentally deleted that photo. I plan on doing some corrective reps in dry fire at home tonight.

With my remaining 20 rounds I ran the 10-10-10 from the holster twice. The first time through I scored a 96 in 9.04 seconds getting a little loose and inconsistent with my grip. The second time I tightened things up and shot a 100 in 9.29. Yes, that is a little slow but speed is not what I was going for tonight. I don't often shoot the full 10-10-10 these days because of the high round count but it is a useful drill that can be modified a number of ways. Once you can do it consistently under 10 with 100 points, there are a number of ways to make it harder.


That was tonight's 50. Tomorrow should be marksmanship with speed.

 

[cedartop]

Last night of 50 rounds was spent on 10 runs of the half test. It is real interesting to be able to see/feel my grip fluctuating and then an odd round here and there escaping the 3X5 card. Maybe a training scar from not using full force grip in dry fire.

Tonight 50 rounds went toward the Pannone Mind games drill. I use the plate rack at 25 yards.
https://soldiersystems.net/2015/03/21/gunfighter-moment-mike-pannone-26/

 

[Vanguard.45]

Ran a drill where my students had to learn to use cover from the opponents they were not engaging. Scenario based and also involved induced weapon malfunctions and weapon transition from shotgun to handgun when the shotgun ran dry. Also involved prioritizing targets based on proximity. Tested them pretty good.

 

[backtrail540]

Short session today. A coworker has been brought into the fold with me and my regular shooting partner and since I didn't have much time today, I ran us through a set of standards that I was given a few years back. One of the contributors of this set is somewhat well known in certain circles but not a nationally known personality. It is a nice set of excercises that tests first shots from the ready, pairs, draws, transitions, reloads, cadence, sho/who, malfunction clearance, and longer distance. Each is ran twice with a go/no go grade each run. Two go's means trained skill, one each needs practice, and two no go's would need remedial training.

I was happy to only have 4 no go over the course of the test. One was a miss due to breaking the shot before I was ready, which was an nd in my mind as I prepped too early. This happens on occasion while pushing speed and I made a conscious effort throughout the rest of the day to not let it happen again and be mindful in that area.

The second no go was an odd issue I hadn't experienced before. I failed to depress the trigger tab safety and instead put lateral pressure on the trigger resulting in a dead trigger until I realized my fault and corrected my finger position. I made the hits but missed the par resulting in a no go. Not sure why it happened. Never before had I had the issue and it didn't happen again within the session.

The last two no go's were also the only double failure which was shots at 50 yards. I missed both. I had done a fair amount of distance shooting this year but hadn't in a few weeks. I was disappointed to say the least.

Other than that the day was spent working with the new guy to get him up to speed on safety and the general idea of how and what we do while giving him pointers when asked. I think he'll be a nice addition to our group.

 

[gregkl]

Ran the IDPA 5X5 classifier today 3 times. Twice with my Compact and once with my Shield. The best I did was 36.58 which means I am in Novice class. Maybe if I slow down and get more -0 hits I'd do better. I had 9 seconds in penalties on my fastest run.

Then I ran the 99 Drill. Scored a 66, just like last time.

I have so many malfunctions with my reloads(lousy primers) that I finally switched to factory rounds to be able to run the drills so I didn't have to keep starting over.

I guess I'll have to shoot up those reloads over time and just them as an opportunity to practice malfunction clearing.

 

[cedartop]

I have been away from the computer for a while with the match and a death in the family so I missed a few entries. The Holiday Havoc IDPA match that I shot over the weekend in Evansville was fun, and the weather was good. My performance left a lot to be desired. In short, I was just too slow. Now, there are a lot of ways to be to slow in a match and I am going to have to figure out where I need to make improvements and attack those areas.

For todays practice I wanted to run some drills that would be fun and emphasize speed. First I ran what I call the Hafer Dot torture drill. I named it after my shooting partner who uses it for beginner classes he teaches. It doesn't have a lot in common with the Dot Torture drill most of us know as it is shot on a full size USPSA/IDPA target a 7 yards. It does use 50 rounds and follows a similar format though. Last week I made it harder by shooting it at 15 yards and did pretty well. Today I went the other way and shot it at 7 but cut the par times in half. I did drop 7 points this way (5 for a complete miss on a head). The toughest stage for me on this one is stage 2 which calls for draw and fire 1 in 2.5. Once you cut that in half it gets tough for me.

Second up was the old Bakersfield PD Qual. That one can be quite tough if shot from concealment (at least the first stage) and I remain impressed that most of that department could pass it on demand. I managed a 97. https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/requiem-for-an-unsung-hero

I finished with 10 shots at 7 yards attempting to slow things back down and just get good trigger presses. Almost one big hole but not quite.

 

[gregkl]

I have been away from the computer for a while with the match and a death in the family so I missed a few entries. The Holiday Havoc IDPA match that I shot over the weekend in Evansville was fun, and the weather was good. My performance left a lot to be desired. In short, I was just too slow. Now, there are a lot of ways to be to slow in a match and I am going to have to figure out where I need to make improvements and attack those areas.

For todays practice I wanted to run some drills that would be fun and emphasize speed. First I ran what I call the Hafer Dot torture drill. I named it after my shooting partner who uses it for beginner classes he teaches. It doesn't have a lot in common with the Dot Torture drill most of us know as it is shot on a full size USPSA/IDPA target a 7 yards. It does use 50 rounds and follows a similar format though. Last week I made it harder by shooting it at 15 yards and did pretty well. Today I went the other way and shot it at 7 but cut the par times in half. I did drop 7 points this way (5 for a complete miss on a head). The toughest stage for me on this one is stage 2 which calls for draw and fire 1 in 2.5. Once you cut that in half it gets tough for me.

Second up was the old Bakersfield PD Qual. That one can be quite tough if shot from concealment (at least the first stage) and I remain impressed that most of that department could pass it on demand. I managed a 97. https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/requiem-for-an-unsung-hero

I finished with 10 shots at 7 yards attempting to slow things back down and just get good trigger presses. Almost one big hole but not quite.

Sorry about the loss in your family. My brother didn't find you though he wouldn't know you if you punched him in the face, lol.

He and his TN boys did okay. He got first in his division and earned a match bump up to Sharpshooter so he was happy with his performance for the day.

But like he says, he's slow compared to a lot of you guys.

Glad to see you back here on this thread.

 

[cedartop]

Drills for Friday 10-14-2022

I decided to shoot the C2 in the IDPA match on Saturday so I started with the Complete Combatant bullseye course to check zero and get trigger time. I shot a 286/300 which isn't bad, but I should have done better. For whatever reason I just had some errant shots. At least I called them.

Shot Hafer Dot torture again in the 7 yard half par time format. Dropped 5 points. Some of the stages are very hard to make time with when cut in half, and some aren't.

Next up was the Spaulding 9 in 9 drill. First pass was a little slow with a 10.25, but followed that up with a clean 9.33 and then a 9.73 -2.

Finished up with Rastoffs challenge which I failed by putting a seven yard shot into the 10 ring instead of the bullseye by just rushing too much.

I really feel like I need to modify my practice just not sure how. I had my worst placing ever at a local IDPA match today 15/41. Yes a number of those ahead of me were PCC's but I was also beaten by people with pistols I have never lost to before. I am usually top 5. Part of the problem was gear related. I shot my Staccato instead of my Walther Q5. Though my Staccato shoots great, I need to get rid of the Holosun with the chevron so all of my guns are consistent across the board with dots. Also mag changes are different because I have switched all of my other guns to lefty mode and they have ambi slide release, of course with the 2011 this is not possible.

I am floundering a bit right now and may need to evaluate what is my priority, self defense or winning games?

 

[gregkl]

Over the last few years I have taken training and practiced running drills. Almost all based on defensive shooting.

I even took a class from a guy who I'm pretty sure has no good regard at all for "games".

Lately I have been thinking that if I stay in the shooting field, I should be doing some competitions. And I should be training accordingly.

I am not a "it's never happen to me" person when it comes to having to use a firearm to defend myself, but I also know that statistically the chances of that happening are way lower than the chance of me competing in shooting matches for fun.

I do not want to start an argument of how shooting games will get you killed on the street and all that. This is a thread about drills so please don't go there.

I am reading several books right now geared towards competition shooting. I will be incorporating the principles in my training and looking to you guys for ideas to improve.

 

[backtrail540]

I am floundering a bit right now and may need to evaluate what is my priority, self defense or winning games?

From my perspective, when you say you're training for a match, it doesn't seem match specific. I currently subscribe to the idea that I got from the guys on Welcome to the Gunshow. When training with a match gun, I shoot the targets for that sport and only train skills relevant to that sport. When running a defensive gun then I can shoot b8's, 3x5's, dots etc...

Sure there is transfer but I don't think you're getting the most out of your session if you're not practicing on correct targets and working the necessary skills. Hitting an 8"/4" circles as fast as I can would be a priority for idpa it seems. So in practice you can push yourself to do it until you go past that point and then find where your on demand or match mode peformance is while also building it. Same with transitions, single handed shooting, and use of cover or footwork(whichever is relevant to the sport. I've never shot idpa but have uspsa so footwork and movement is all really important. Throttle control and the like come into play also but do it with idpa targets at varying distance so that it is most like what you would encounter at the match. I don't think b8 accuracy drills are as relevant to idpa/uspsa because that level of precision is rare there, ime.

Then when carry gun skills are necessary you work low % targets, deliberate shooting, stopping shooting, etc...that is if you want to do both and also care about placement. As timmies, it's easy to want to do the drills we enjoy - which are largely defensive oriented - with our match guns because that's what we like but it doesn't maximize the value, seemingly. Using a uspsa gun to shoot 100's on b8's at 25 is cool but that's not the intent or skills necessary for that gun/sport. Not that you can't or don't get value in doing so. It just isn't maximized for the purpose.

 

[1nderbeard]

My last few range sessions have been more about getting away from "fast/inaccurate" shooting and relearning the front sight fundamentals. Shockingly I found my handgun skills were diminishing after a few years of sparing practice. 2020 really killed my routines.
Pretty happy with the results. I'm not really a match shooter as much as I am a defensive one.

 

[backtrail540]

Had a little 50 round practice with the shooting crew today. I dug in the crates, so to speak, and pulled out some old TLG drills. The first was 3x5 range push.

Start at 5 yards and draw 2 to a 3x5 card until you get three clean runs. Take your middle clean time and that is your par. Now add 1 yard. The goal is to beat that par. Keep adding a yard until you miss one. Then you go back to your last previous yard line that you shot under par and must do three clean in a row. If you miss again within those three, then you subtract another yard and keep doing so until you get three clean runs under par. Whatever yard line you get three in a row clean and under par (after your initial miss at max distance) is your score.

My cold runs were 2.23, 2.04, and 1.97 all clean. So my par was 2.04. I made par at 6 and dropped a shot at 7. Then went 3 clean at 6 for a final score of 6 yards. There was controversy over one hit and whether a grease ring was touching or not. Generally I am my harshest critic here, but today I was feeling generous

The second drill was his 3x5 speed push(modified) but at 5 yards because I misremembered the distance. Here you do 10 reps and use your fastest clean time as your par. I used one magazine of 14 for ammo conservation. Then you go 10 reps trying to beat that par time and your score is total hits under par. Again I used one magazine of 14 for ammo conservation. My best clean time of the first seven runs was 1.82. Of the next seven runs I got 11/14 points under the 1.82 par. I had a miss and then missed par two times. It really forces you to manipulate the gun more efficiently. Two areas that I focused on were attacking the beep(hand on gun before the beep is over) and not letting the dot completely settle (painting with the brush as the dot is moving anywhere on the card as opposed to letting it stop and be a still dot before pressing).

I really like these type of drills that aren't someone elses standard or par time. As Gabe White has talked about, those sorts of drills are often too easy or too far outside of reach. These types of drills, you set the par based on your performance that day and then work to improve upon that. They are easily adapted to different equipment (one of the guys had a new gun with no holster and so was ran from the ready and it didn't really affect the drill as the standard was his own) or target standards (you could do the same with high% targets, qual targets, or distances) and still reap the benefits of improving your right here right now in these conditions level. Naturally you can game them as well, sandbagging and whatnot, but you're only cheating yourself there. Definitely dig the old TLG stuff and if you peruse his stuff elsewhere, it's worth searching his old threads and revisiting.

I am not doing much dry practice or competing right now so i don't have any goals currently. Therefore I am picking drills based on the needs and wants of the group i'm practicing with. One guy wants to work on the FAST so a future session will be micro drills that will help with that. The other guy is very novice and just got a 365xl that he is struggling with so I'll be doing some stuff that is very fundamentals based until he gets to a point that he is ready to do something on the clock. Should about close the year out in another month then it will be dry practice instead of live fire days until spring time.

 

[cedartop]

From my perspective, when you say you're training for a match, it doesn't seem match specific. I currently subscribe to the idea that I got from the guys on Welcome to the Gunshow. When training with a match gun, I shoot the targets for that sport and only train skills relevant to that sport. When running a defensive gun then I can shoot b8's, 3x5's, dots etc...

Sure there is transfer but I don't think you're getting the most out of your session if you're not practicing on correct targets and working the necessary skills. Hitting an 8"/4" circles as fast as I can would be a priority for idpa it seems. So in practice you can push yourself to do it until you go past that point and then find where your on demand or match mode peformance is while also building it. Same with transitions, single handed shooting, and use of cover or footwork(whichever is relevant to the sport. I've never shot idpa but have uspsa so footwork and movement is all really important. Throttle control and the like come into play also but do it with idpa targets at varying distance so that it is most like what you would encounter at the match. I don't think b8 accuracy drills are as relevant to idpa/uspsa because that level of precision is rare there, ime.

Then when carry gun skills are necessary you work low % targets, deliberate shooting, stopping shooting, etc...that is if you want to do both and also care about placement. As timmies, it's easy to want to do the drills we enjoy - which are largely defensive oriented - with our match guns because that's what we like but it doesn't maximize the value, seemingly. Using a uspsa gun to shoot 100's on b8's at 25 is cool but that's not the intent or skills necessary for that gun/sport. Not that you can't or don't get value in doing so. It just isn't maximized for the purpose.

I don't disagree with anything you have said there. A couple of years ago I ran the Mike Seeklander Competition program using USPSA targets and it worked well. At that time ammo was still relatively cheap so I could run that program and still do some defensive drills. Now, especially cash flowing a daughter's college tuition, ammo is restricted. Most of my match specific work I do is dry work at home setting up small stages and working entry/exit, movement, transitions, etc.. Probably what I should be working live fire is mostly related to recoil management and speed change ups.

 

[gregkl]

Worked on accuracy today. I did the 5X5 classifier trying to get "0" points down.

Also ran Dot Torture. I did the best ever but still didn't clean it. I'll get it.

Short session today as I ran just the two drills and the plate rack once.