What drills did you run this week and how did you do?

[backtrail540]

Started off with what I have been wasting altogether too much time with, trying to wring accuracy out of this Sig. Last night I put the new Killer Innovations barrel in and it did not look promising. It would not even cycle reliably by hand with dummy rounds in either slide. I did keep working it and oiled it up good. At least at the range today it ran well with no issues in the original slide. I will try it with the Custom shop slide next. Accuracy was ok. Certainly better than the Zev barrel. I ran 50 through it at 10 and 25 yards.

I always try to do at least one defensive drill with my carry gear. Today it was the Rangemaster 3X5 drill that Wayne Dobbs had posted on Facebook. The target is a 3X5 card using a B8 as background (I actually used something else) At 5 yards you have 5 seconds for a draw from concealment and 5 shots. At 5 yards from the ready you shoot 3 rounds SHO and then 2 rounds WHO in a par time of 7 seconds. Next is 3Reload3 at 7 yards from the ready in 8 seconds and then finish up with 4 rounds at 10 yards from the ready in 4 seconds. Shots in the 3X5 are 10 points, shots in the backer are worth 5 and off of that is zero. Next time I may try them all from the holster. I shot this with the Staccato.
View attachment 260090

After that drill I switched back to the Legion and ran SWYNTS 2 times, once with each Legion upper. I was happy to make my par times at 15 and 7, and even make the par of 2 shots at 3 yards in 1 second twice. One with each upper. I am starting to get enough under par at 15 that I should probably switch to a little more refinement. At 7 I don't yet have any extra time and at 3 it is still a grind to get under a second. I find at these levels the sometimes breakdown seems to be getting the proper grip with my support hand on the draw.

Stoeger doubles were next at 15, 10, and 7 yards. I was clearly gripping to hard with my primary hand resulting in less than optimal hits and splits.

I finished up with the Rastoffs Challenge drill which I failed by throwing a round into the black. I had hoped to do some movement drills today but the range was flooded from all of the recent rain and snow so it seemed best to just stay in one spot.

I gotta give it to you on the persistance with the sig. I do not have that type of patience. If i am unhappy with a gun for whatever minor reason i send it along and move on because there is always something that I am intrigued by. Good on you for trying to make it work. What about it keeps you interested in keeping on keeping on with it?

 

[ECS686]

I gotta give it to you on the persistance with the sig. I do not have that type of patience. If i am unhappy with a gun for whatever minor reason i send it along and move on because there is always something that I am intrigued by. Good on you for trying to make it work. What about it keeps you interested in keeping on keeping on with it?

Not sure how long you try but here is what my experience has been.

When I was issued an agency gun it generally took my about 3 months to get to the same level of proficiency as my last. Then it’s like a glove (and I shoot a couple times a month or more)

From my Military days going from a S&W Model 15 to an M9 through a Glock from an Sig P series it always took all of 90 days (with the Glock especially just because the grip angles) etc. going to an HK MP 5 from years of M14/4 use felt the most challenging but again after 3 months I was running it the same.

While some guns I can shoot faster and more accurate I’m not wrapped up with technical shooting and wouldn’t matter in what I can assess when a shot is legal or not.

I just did the Range Master Instructor Development Course with a 16 year old standard sight S&W M&P 9 and was over 98% in shooting test part.

Practice practice and more practice til it becomes an extension!

 

[gregkl]

Ran a drill named 2-Target Tango. Two targets set up with 6 different drills. Purpose is to practice transitions and varied timing so you can hit the torso shots quickly and then slow down enough to get accurate head shots.

Using IDPA "points down" scoring, I scored a 32.48 with the TX22C and 30.32 with my compact. I was actually faster with the TX but more accurate with the M&P.

Then I ran the CSAT drill. I hadn't run it since September of 22. I ran it with both pistols, the TX being the first time. Even though it's been awhile since I ran this drill, my scores were better but I still did not achieve a passing grade of 8 out of 10.

 

[cedartop]

I gotta give it to you on the persistance with the sig. I do not have that type of patience. If i am unhappy with a gun for whatever minor reason i send it along and move on because there is always something that I am intrigued by. Good on you for trying to make it work. What about it keeps you interested in keeping on keeping on with it?

Not sure how long you try but here is what my experience has been.

When I was issued an agency gun it generally took my about 3 months to get to the same level of proficiency as my last. Then it’s like a glove (and I shoot a couple times a month or more)

From my Military days going from a S&W Model 15 to an M9 through a Glock from an Sig P series it always took all of 90 days (with the Glock especially just because the grip angles) etc. going to an HK MP 5 from years of M14/4 use felt the most challenging but again after 3 months I was running it the same.

While some guns I can shoot faster and more accurate I’m not wrapped up with technical shooting and wouldn’t matter in what I can assess when a shot is legal or not.

I just did the Range Master Instructor Development Course with a 16 year old standard sight S&W M&P 9 and was over 98% in shooting test part.

Practice practice and more practice til it becomes an extension!

That is a good question. I guess it is a number of reasons. First, I don't buy guns to collect them. Everything I have gets shot. When I got this I was looking for something else and they didn't have it and this was a impulse buy. I never do that. I never use credit cards to buy guns and only pay cash. Since I was in the LGS looking for something else, when it was not there that cash must have been burning a hole in my pocket. I have been pissed at myself ever since and am sort of determined to make this work because of that.

The above fits and doesn't fit with what ECS686 is saying. Normally I don't require that bonding time with a handgun unless it is a completely different platform. My Walther Q5 and Staccato I shot well right off the bat. It really makes me mad this is not the case with the Sig and am determined to show I can shoot it well. Part of me thinks it is me, but then I pick up my other guns and shoot so much better without even working hard and I say no, it isn't me it is the gun. Still there is a nagging in my brain saying it is something I have to overcome.

I guess the best reason is, other than the terrible accuracy I really like the gun. I like the weight of that TXG frame. I like the balance of that shorter slide. The controls work well for me, I can use the mag release button without shifting my grip, the slide release works well. The trigger was typical Sig striker crap but I took care of that. The optic mounting system is pretty good, I don't have to use plates. Of course the modularity is cool. It would be nice if I could make this work as my IDPA gun.

Anyway, it is probably pretty silly but I am so far into it time and money wise now I feel like I am trapped. Besides that, I can't decide on an alternative. It was going to be a LTT HK P30 LEM but I think that would be a huge adjustment not to mention all new holsters and magazines. Lie was simpler when all I shot was Glocks.

 

[cedartop]

Ran a drill named 2-Target Tango. Two targets set up with 6 different drills. Purpose is to practice transitions and varied timing so you can hit the torso shots quickly and then slow down enough to get accurate head shots.

Using IDPA "points down" scoring, I scored a 32.48 with the TX22C and 30.32 with my compact. I was actually faster with the TX but more accurate with the M&P.

Then I ran the CSAT drill. I hadn't run it since September of 22. I ran it with both pistols, the TX being the first time. Even though it's been awhile since I ran this drill, my scores were better but I still did not achieve a passing grade of 8 out of 10.

CSAT is the Paul Howe stuff? If so I have that printed out somewhere. If I remember it is more of a test than a drill so it is good that you have improved even if you aren't yet passing.

 

[gregkl]

CSAT is the Paul Howe stuff? If so I have that printed out somewhere. If I remember it is more of a test than a drill so it is good that you have improved even if you aren't yet passing.

Yeah it is a test. I'm not sure if it is Paul Howe. I can look it up. I don't do the one section where you use a rifle. I need to since it may provide me one more passing drill to get me closer to passing the test overall.

 

[backtrail540]

That is a good question. I guess it is a number of reasons. First, I don't buy guns to collect them. Everything I have gets shot. When I got this I was looking for something else and they didn't have it and this was a impulse buy. I never do that. I never use credit cards to buy guns and only pay cash. Since I was in the LGS looking for something else, when it was not there that cash must have been burning a hole in my pocket. I have been pissed at myself ever since and am sort of determined to make this work because of that.

The above fits and doesn't fit with what ECS686 is saying. Normally I don't require that bonding time with a handgun unless it is a completely different platform. My Walther Q5 and Staccato I shot well right off the bat. It really makes me mad this is not the case with the Sig and am determined to show I can shoot it well. Part of me thinks it is me, but then I pick up my other guns and shoot so much better without even working hard and I say no, it isn't me it is the gun. Still there is a nagging in my brain saying it is something I have to overcome.

I guess the best reason is, other than the terrible accuracy I really like the gun. I like the weight of that TXG frame. I like the balance of that shorter slide. The controls work well for me, I can use the mag release button without shifting my grip, the slide release works well. The trigger was typical Sig striker crap but I took care of that. The optic mounting system is pretty good, I don't have to use plates. Of course the modularity is cool. It would be nice if I could make this work as my IDPA gun.

Anyway, it is probably pretty silly but I am so far into it time and money wise now I feel like I am trapped. Besides that, I can't decide on an alternative. It was going to be a LTT HK P30 LEM but I think that would be a huge adjustment not to mention all new holsters and magazines. Lie was simpler when all I shot was Glocks.

So a new 34 it is!

 

[cedartop]

I grew up a farmer so I still believe in making hay while the sun shines. Went back out to the range today in the early evening. Up first was trying out the barrel/slide combo I didn't try out yesterday, Killer Innovations barrel in Custom shop slide with SRO. It functioned well throughout the session and while accuracy was nothing to write home about, other then one I shanked it was ok.



Since I just wanted to have some fun today, I ran the CSAT Instructor standards that Greg mentioned. As is usually the case once warmed up I did better on the second run.
1) Ready 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 1 sec par. .71, .55
2)Draw 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 1.7 sec par. 1.25, 1.29
3)Ready 2 shots 1 target 7 yards 1.5 sec par. 1.10, 1.02
4)Ready 5 body/1 head 1 target 7 yards 3 sec par 3.03, 2.81 (first run I hit the head but was outside the IDPA down zero circle)
5)Ready 4 shots 2 targets 7 yards 3 sec par. 2.19, 1.91
6)Ready 4 shots, 2 weak, 2 strong 1 target 5 sec par. 3.63, 3.31
7)Ready 1 shot malfunction drill 1 target 3 sec par. 2.31, 2.36
8)Ready 4 shots 2reload2 1 target 5 sec 4.3, 3.74 (I did these from slidelock, not sure if that is correct)
9)Rifle up dry transition 1 shot pistol 7 yards 3.25 sec par. 2.27, 1.76
10)Draw 1 shot kneeling 1 target 25 yards 3.25 sec par 2.24, 2.36 (first run my shot was just under the 8 inch IDPA down zero circle)

I followed this up with 7 yard 4 aces. My times on those were 3.81. 3.61, 3.37, 3.39, 3.19.

Going through my range bag I found the Vogel King Drill target and since I am doing a private class with him next month I figured it might be good to work on some of his stuff. Even if we don't do it in class it is a good drill covering a number of things (which I guess almost makes it a test?) 4, 3 inch circles on a paper. At 6 yards draw and fire 3 shots each on the bottom circles, do a slide lock reload while moving forward to the 4 yard line and then shoot the other 2 circles with 3 SHO and 3 WHO. I am going to start dry firing this one.

I finished up with an 8 round one hole challenge at 10 yards. I failed, but it wasn't terrible.
At least if it is crappy like they are saying for next weekend, I got an extra session in.

 

[backtrail540]

Not sure how long you try but here is what my experience has been.

When I was issued an agency gun it generally took my about 3 months to get to the same level of proficiency as my last. Then it’s like a glove (and I shoot a couple times a month or more)

From my Military days going from a S&W Model 15 to an M9 through a Glock from an Sig P series it always took all of 90 days (with the Glock especially just because the grip angles) etc. going to an HK MP 5 from years of M14/4 use felt the most challenging but again after 3 months I was running it the same.

While some guns I can shoot faster and more accurate I’m not wrapped up with technical shooting and wouldn’t matter in what I can assess when a shot is legal or not.

I just did the Range Master Instructor Development Course with a 16 year old standard sight S&W M&P 9 and was over 98% in shooting test part.

Practice practice and more practice til it becomes an extension!

I rarely move on because of performance standards as I shoot enough different guns that the difference is often close enough to match my day to day variance. That also means that my peak is lower than if I only dry practiced and worked with one gun but i do what I need to stay interested.

For instance, I ran the Gabe White tests last year with 5 different pistols and my aggregate time between all 5 ranged from 17.56-19.14. The best agg was with the gun I shot the least and I believe that it would've been that or close with whatever I had shot that day, as it was just one of those peak days performance wise. Same guns on the Advanced Super Test ranged from 285-292. Similar difference as my day to day difference.

So generally when I move on it's because of reliability issues, ergonomics, or boredom. In MVS' case, a gun that won't shoot to his potential - I would move it along because whether it's me or the mechanical accuracy of the gun, I wouldn't enjoy not meeting the standard I set with other guns and therefore would be fine trading it or selling it to fund something i enjoyed. But we're all unique in this and that's just my take. I get the pride part and trying to beat the issue.

 

[cedartop]

So a new 34 it is!

I have considered going to a Shadow Systems to make use of my 100+ Glock mags, but not lefty friendly.

 

[backtrail540]

I have considered going to a Shadow Systems to make use of my 100+ Glock mags, but not lefty friendly.

I enjoyed the time I spent with a dr920 and wouldn't mind trying a dr920l at some point. Sucks new guns aren't ambi in 2023.

 

[backtrail540]

15/22 again this week. About 300 rounds working basic stuff. Reloads (3.5 par was the best i could manage out of a back pocket concealed under a coat), ready 1's out to 50 (2 second par at 25 could get the head if i got my mount right but I'm still wonky. Failure drills and multi shot strings just for fun. Not entirely productive but some good work. Should be able to get some 9mm in for the session two weeks out. Also likely snagging a g44 to have some cheap iron sight practice.

 

[Skip]

Haven't been out this week, under the weather. Last week though I shot the Dot Torture Timed drill.

 

[gregkl]

Not going to get out today. Too much rain/snow. I don't mind, but the paper targets do, lol.

I'll work on Jeep and make it out next week.

 

[cedartop]

Haven't been out this week, under the weather. Last week though I shot the Dot Torture Timed drill.

That looks almost identical to a "Dot Torture" drill I got from a shooting buddy. He lists 2 other options 1) Shoot at 7 yards with times cut in half 2) shoot at 15 yards with time same as original. If I shoot it, I use one of or both of those two options. I was never sure why someone decided to call this Dot Torture as it is a completely different animal than the original. Not that that makes it bad.

 

[Skip]

That looks almost identical to a "Dot Torture" drill I got from a shooting buddy. He lists 2 other options 1) Shoot at 7 yards with times cut in half 2) shoot at 15 yards with time same as original. If I shoot it, I use one of or both of those two options. I was never sure why someone decided to call this Dot Torture as it is a completely different animal than the original. Not that that makes it bad.

It’s just what it started out as. It takes all the drills from the Todd Louis Greene original and puts it on an “IDPA" style target and induces time constraints. It is one of the best all around drill ever designed.

 

[cedartop]

Not going to get out today. Too much rain/snow. I don't mind, but the paper targets do, lol.

I'll work on Jeep and make it out next week.

I went out yesterday evening even though it was cold and I am glad I did because we are back to a winter wonderland today.

As is customary for me and my fickleness I like to start out with something different each time. Not the best way to make progress, but I find it fun. I had seen where Scott Jedlinski and Hunter Freeland got their patches for MOD standards but not the coins so I checked that out. Honestly they didn't look all that tough until I actually tried them. OK, they weren't easy. I shot them first cold with my Staccato from AIWB and then with my Legion Carry and a open front jacket.

Staccato C2 Legion carry
1) 3.54 1)3.20 patch par 3 seconds
2) 1.93 2) 1.77 patch par 1.7 seconds
3) 3.55 3) 3.30 patch par 3 seconds
4) 3.88 4) 3.30 1M (went into the body) patch par 3 seconds

It is a lot to type out so I linked the drills. It has different time standards for Coin or patch. You start from different hand positions on each string. Each string makes a fine drill on its own if you wanted to do that.

Next up was a drill I have been keeping steady and consistent work on 5 times a week dry fire and once live. Improvement is slower than I like but it is coming, SWYNTS. At 15 yards I made all of my par times. Actually averaging about 1.85 seconds so it is time to start tightening the group up. Actually doing that and keeping under the 2 second par should be challenging and instructional. I also made my par on all 7 yards strings though most were close. Fastest was a 1.32. At 3 yards I made the 1 second par time twice, 1.00 and .98 I will continue to look for places in my draw to speed this up.

It was a fairly short session today so I just wrapped it up with 10 head shots slowfire on a 3X5 card with the Legion. Still trying to wring some accuracy out. went 5/10 on the card, 8/10 on the head with the 2 misses going into the neck. To be fair, the cold breeze had me shaking by this point.

 

[backtrail540]

I went out yesterday evening even though it was cold and I am glad I did because we are back to a winter wonderland today.

As is customary for me and my fickleness I like to start out with something different each time. Not the best way to make progress, but I find it fun. I had seen where Scott Jedlinski and Hunter Freeland got their patches for MOD standards but not the coins so I checked that out. Honestly they didn't look all that tough until I actually tried them. OK, they weren't easy. I shot them first cold with my Staccato from AIWB and then with my Legion Carry and a open front jacket.

Staccato C2 Legion carry
1) 3.54 1)3.20 patch par 3 seconds
2) 1.93 2) 1.77 patch par 1.7 seconds
3) 3.55 3) 3.30 patch par 3 seconds
4) 3.88 4) 3.30 1M (went into the body) patch par 3 seconds

It is a lot to type out so I linked the drills. It has different time standards for Coin or patch. You start from different hand positions on each string. Each string makes a fine drill on its own if you wanted to do that.

Next up was a drill I have been keeping steady and consistent work on 5 times a week dry fire and once live. Improvement is slower than I like but it is coming, SWYNTS. At 15 yards I made all of my par times. Actually averaging about 1.85 seconds so it is time to start tightening the group up. Actually doing that and keeping under the 2 second par should be challenging and instructional. I also made my par on all 7 yards strings though most were close. Fastest was a 1.32. At 3 yards I made the 1 second par time twice, 1.00 and .98 I will continue to look for places in my draw to speed this up.

It was a fairly short session today so I just wrapped it up with 10 head shots slowfire on a 3X5 card with the Legion. Still trying to wring some accuracy out. went 5/10 on the card, 8/10 on the head with the 2 misses going into the neck. To be fair, the cold breeze had me shaking by this point.

I'm going to give the MOD a try later this week. Going by some data from past peformances, I've got a baseline to see how much of a push I'll have to make these.

The 7 yard - using the split bill on Gabes test as a datapoint my best last year was 2.58 and several 2.6's. The coin standard will be a major push but 3 should be doable for the patch level. A lot will depend on the garment prep draw and if it throws me off or helps me.

10 yards - a single head from high thoracic will be untenable in 1.2 unless i'm going zero or hero and even then i would chalk it up to luck unless I repeat it. The patch standard should be doable, using a clean run on the test as a starting point, I'm generally around there for my first shot to the black as a similar target reference.

15 yards - I didn't have any data with 15 yard stuff to high percentage targets so it will be a just do it thing. Looks deceptively easy on paper so it's probably going to eat my lunch

25 yards - 2.4 is sporty. During the No Fail, I generally get around 2-2.5 for the first shot so i don't think that's even near my wheelhouse of capability but anything is possible haha. 3 will be pushing but when I run my modified lapd qual, the first 25 yard string has a 4 second par and I'm generally at 3 or so and that's on a b8 though not necessarily in the black as it's not needed for that drill, just hoped for.


I've also had this obsession with running the vtac 1-5 rifle drill with pistols, dots and irons, so I'm going to try that too. Making it dry so it will be nice to see how that translates. Between these two, i'm sure I'll waste my allotment for the day after many reps chasing tenths.

 

[cedartop]

I'm going to give the MOD a try later this week. Going by some data from past peformances, I've got a baseline to see how much of a push I'll have to make these.

The 7 yard - using the split bill on Gabes test as a datapoint my best last year was 2.58 and several 2.6's. The coin standard will be a major push but 3 should be doable for the patch level. A lot will depend on the garment prep draw and if it throws me off or helps me.

10 yards - a single head from high thoracic will be untenable in 1.2 unless i'm going zero or hero and even then i would chalk it up to luck unless I repeat it. The patch standard should be doable, using a clean run on the test as a starting point, I'm generally around there for my first shot to the black as a similar target reference.

15 yards - I didn't have any data with 15 yard stuff to high percentage targets so it will be a just do it thing. Looks deceptively easy on paper so it's probably going to eat my lunch

25 yards - 2.4 is sporty. During the No Fail, I generally get around 2-2.5 for the first shot so i don't think that's even near my wheelhouse of capability but anything is possible haha. 3 will be pushing but when I run my modified lapd qual, the first 25 yard string has a 4 second par and I'm generally at 3 or so and that's on a b8 though not necessarily in the black as it's not needed for that drill, just hoped for.


I've also had this obsession with running the vtac 1-5 rifle drill with pistols, dots and irons, so I'm going to try that too. Making it dry so it will be nice to see how that translates. Between these two, i'm sure I'll waste my allotment for the day after many reps chasing tenths.

I will probably do a whole practice session at some point using the MOD. All of the patch standards are doable, unfortunately cold with one run I just wasn't there, and that is what counts.

 

[backtrail540]

Glock 19/407c or nomad 9/407c or nomad 9 with irons in an enigma under a few layers (32 degrees)

I started with the MOD cold using carry ammo (147 hst) simply because I needed to burn it up to swap it for the summer. Doing them dry I realized that the coin times weren't likely and even the patch times would give me a run. Despite looking at past data, it is not current level performance.

I screwed up on the very first drill and accidentally ran a 3&2 at 7 vs the split bill as needed. Aside from the 2 mikes (c on the body and actual no **** miss on the head), running the wrong sequence made it null and void. I had forgotten to adjust my dot after dry practice the other day and it was a good lesson in making sure that you set your gear back to where you need it for carry if you don't have a dedicated dry practice gun. Lesson learned as the dot was super dim and took longer to acquire as well as track, being just barely visible against the target. Foolish mistake.

Any way, the time was 2.73 for the 3&2 disaster. Woof

2.73 accidental 3&2 disaster

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For the 10 yard header I made patch time in 1.62

1.62 10 yard header

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Dropped 2 C's and barely squeaked time for a fail at 15

2.89 4 at 15 yards

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Made the patch time with 2 in 2.75 at 25.

2.75 two headers at 25

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Maybe could have been a touch faster if I didn't use hst but I don't think it makes enough difference to matter, for the lack of performance was more than just recoil difference.

I pretty much spent the rest of the day running the vtac 1-5 rifle drill with pistols. For whatever reason I became obsessed with doing this in dry practice over the last few weeks and had to get it out of my system. Lots of failed attempts but you can see through the progression where I started getting more aggressive with my vision and driving the gun a bit faster and to a definite spot as the progression goes on.

5.27 with nomad 9 and irons running the rest of the hst

5.27 vtac 1-5 nomad9 irons

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5.43 for the initial run of the g19 and dot

5.43 vtac 1-5 g19/dot

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5.69 decided to put the dot on the nomad and try it

5.69 vtac 1-5 nomad/dot

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5.10 and the first clean run with nomad and dot

5.10 clean vtac 1-5 nomad/dot

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4.50! but not clean with nomad and dot. Had a 4.73 prior but camera got turned around to selfie mode. Also was not clean.

5.10 clean vtac 1-5 nomad/dot

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4.89 with nomad and dot before calling it good for the day. No dice on a clean sub 5 run.

4.89 vtac 1-5 nomad/dot

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Next I shot a group with hst at 25 in the nomad to see how it grouped. A mediocre 89 with 5 in the 10 ring, 4 in the 8 ring and a 7. I shoot this gun well close and fast but have historically struggled with this trigger at distance despite sharing the upper with my g19 and doing better with it on a stock trigger.

I was going to do a final g19 25 yard group for comparison but decided to say f it and go for one more 1-5 attempt using my g19 instead of the nomad. I had to borrow 5 rounds of hst from the new box to have enough.

4.94 clean! vtac 1-5 g19/dot

4.94 vtac 1-5 g19/dot

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Glad i went for that rather than a group. This was awarding. The group likely would not have been unless I hundo'd. Great to end in victory after all the attempts! I will need to stop with the sillyness and get some general practice in to sharpen up my basic skills with the next few sessions. I'm quite rusty! It was fun throwing myself at this today, though.