Wanna know why people say ACAB?

Denny347

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I’d love to hear the jury instructions on that case. A prosecutor can indict a Ham sandwich and a judge can get whatever outcome he wants if he chooses abuse jury instructions
Are we talking about a grand jury or an actual trial? In the Shaver shooting, it was formal charges and a criminal trial. It was a criminal jury that acquitted him. It was a Judge who gave the jury their deliberation instructions, it is unlikely the judge skewed the instructions to favor the officer. It's quite easy to believe the prosecution failed to proved his guilt. Now grand juries/ham sandwiches, I've heard that, and it's true to a degree. A grand jury is ran by the Prosecutor. They can introduce any evidence they want, exclude any evidence they choose. They run the show. So yes, they can indict a ham sandwich but what does that say about the indictment? It's worthless, political showmanship.
 

Denny347

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@Denny347 , thank you for adding in the Indiana law.

As a lay person, I always thought "probable cause" was along the lines of more likely than not... i.e. 51% at a minimum... otherwise, at 30-40%, the officers were arresting, and the courts were trying, the wrong person most of the time. Ditto shooting someone who was more likely (60-70%) to be unarmed, than armed (30-40%).

And as others have said about Shaver, it's not an acceptable outcome to me. If that's what the system prescribes, then IMO, the system needs to change.
You are very welcome. Even more important is IC 35-41-3-2, the law that allows citizens to use force/deadly force. You will find it sounds very similar to IC 35-41-3-3.
From lowest level of proof to highest (rough %)
1. Reasonable Suspicion 15%
2. Probable Cause 30-50%
3. Preponderance of Evidence 51% (Civil Court )
4. Clear and Convincing 75%
5. Reasonable Doubt 95% (Criminal Court)

Force, lethal and non, is considered a 4th Amendment issue. The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
 
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SheepDog4Life

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daddyusmaximus

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Stuff like this. Means at any time anyone who is doing nothing wrong can have their life ruined.


Dear guy who likes to jump to conclusions, like the media, and leftists, and most politicians,

What you posted was a clip that was part of a larger video. One you obviously did NOT see, or research about. One you do NOT understand all the details about.

A lot of us (myself included) have screwed up, and jumped a little too soon before, so I'm not gonna slam you too hard, but you ain't getting a free pass either. It's this kind of willy nilly throwing out bad info that gets everyone, and their brother screaming "acab" and "racist" and every other claim they can think of that does nothing to fix things.

Everyone knows there are bad cops. Just like everyone knows that the VAST MAJORITY of cops are good decent people just out there doing a dangerous, thankless job.

Everyone knows there are racist people out there. Just like everyone knows those people are actually few, and far between, and NOT systemically part of the American way of life. (outside of the democrat party, and far right nut jobs)

The list goes on...

Best thing is to NOT rush to judgement, and NOT keep up with this modern tradition of slinging mud.
 

rooster

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so I'm not gonna slam you too hard, but you ain't getting a free pass either
Wow law enforcement are supposed to be law enforcement, not law punishment. Perhaps it’s the attitude that police can punish by physical means or verbal abuse that is the cause of making a police interaction statistically the most dangerous thing I do in a given year.
 

actaeon277

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THAT is the most dangerous?

Let's see.
At work I've been taken out by ambulance 3 times.
About 10 times taken to the on site medical center.
From home.. I can't even remember , more than 5 trips to the ER.

Police interactions causing medical issues. .. ZERO.
 

bwframe

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Wow law enforcement are supposed to be law enforcement, not law punishment. Perhaps it’s the attitude that police can punish by physical means or verbal abuse that is the cause of making a police interaction statistically the most dangerous thing I do in a given year.
You must not drive anywhere?
 

DoggyDaddy

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You must not drive anywhere?
I took it to mean that he's in the habit of being confrontational and resisting arrest whenever he encounters law enforcement. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me. :dunno: Somehow I've made it to 61 years old without ever feeling threatened by law enforcement officers.
 

jsharmon7

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Wow law enforcement are supposed to be law enforcement, not law punishment. Perhaps it’s the attitude that police can punish by physical means or verbal abuse that is the cause of making a police interaction statistically the most dangerous thing I do in a given year.
:drama:
 

daddyusmaximus

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Wow law enforcement are supposed to be law enforcement, not law punishment. Perhaps it’s the attitude that police can punish by physical means or verbal abuse that is the cause of making a police interaction statistically the most dangerous thing I do in a given year.

Dangerous... statistically?

Well, that kinda depends on what you're up to at the time now doesn't it? Which brings me to the questions.

Do you even know what danger is?

How about statics?




If you don't, you can always go up stairs and ask your mom.
 

rooster

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poke fun all you want, I’ve never had a negative interaction yet. But there in the back of my mind I’m keenly aware that should I fail to look submissive and say my yes sir’s no sir’s , I may well get lashed out at and end up beaten or worse.

The reactions I’m seeing here from LEO that have the inability to force me to bend to their will over the internet are kinda proving my point.......
 

BugI02

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THAT is the most dangerous?

Let's see.
At work I've been taken out by ambulance 3 times.
About 10 times taken to the on site medical center.
From home.. I can't even remember , more than 5 trips to the ER.

Police interactions causing medical issues. .. ZERO.
Did you get anything for the hat trick? At least a new ball cap?

Seriously, though, Act - have you considered a less ... exciting ... line of work?
 

Tombs

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poke fun all you want, I’ve never had a negative interaction yet. But there in the back of my mind I’m keenly aware that should I fail to look submissive and say my yes sir’s no sir’s , I may well get lashed out at and end up beaten or worse.

The reactions I’m seeing here from LEO that have the inability to force me to bend to their will over the internet are kinda proving my point.......

The only thing that makes me nervous is needing to get to my registration or wallet.
If I do it before the cop approaches the window, he sees me farting around with stuff, and if I was him that'd spook me.
If I do it with him at the window, that would also spook me if I was in his shoes.
 

actaeon277

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Did you get anything for the hat trick? At least a new ball cap?

Seriously, though, Act - have you considered a less ... exciting ... line of work?

What? And give up these great stories?
Besides, there are so many that didn't even involve medical.
When my pants caught on fire, burned holes in my t-shirt, and melted the elastic in my underwear to my belly, I didn't need a trip. A little burn cream here and there, and presto.. all fixed.


And that time I had to find the natural gas shut off valve for a melted flexible rubber pipe, well when it flared up about 30 foot in front of me, well it created an AWESOME video on the camera system. I wish I was able to get a copy of that one.
When I turned around to run, my head caught a low hanging wire stopping my head from forward motion. My feet however were still moving 20 mph. Causing me to lay myself out.
With my hardhat light shining in the fog created by the fire extinguisher, it was a sight to behold.

Getting to help people stop the bleed on amputations provide valuable experience. But I only have one of those under my belt. And it was just the end of a finger caught between a chain and a sprocket. (not my finger).
 

Route 45

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poke fun all you want, I’ve never had a negative interaction yet. But there in the back of my mind I’m keenly aware that should I fail to look submissive and say my yes sir’s no sir’s , I may well get lashed out at and end up beaten or worse.

The reactions I’m seeing here from LEO that have the inability to force me to bend to their will over the internet are kinda proving my point.......
 
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