Vaccine coercion/bribery

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    Keith_Indy

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    He probably saw the headline, linked the article without reading, and now will be left to flounder around defending his mistake. I'd hope his clients aren't paying good money for this type of shoddy work.

    I also note he's not commented on my two replies to him on one of the other COVID threads...



    It's to the point where he's not worth the time to debate. My ignore list is growing daily with people who are not coming at this in a level headed, factual manner.

    I can deal with people who are bringing up cogent arguments. I even "put up" with people who occasionally post rumors and wild theories.

    Some people seem to be agenda driven to the point of being disingenuous and/or hateful in their desire to cut other members down to size.

    To them I say "Good day sir, I said GOOD DAY SIR."
     

    buckwacker

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    You know what this is right? This is TPTB attempting to artificially deflate the covid case numbers as a larger percentage of the population is vaccinated to "prove" they work. Previously they inflated numbers by listing as covid symptoms those common to all sorts of ubiquitous ailments so that massive numbers of people flocked to get tested out of terror, advocated the use of pcr tests for covid without any guidance on cycles to generate false positives, and then bombard people incessantly with covid case numbers to gin up the fear necessary to sell the vaccines. Now that a significant portion of the developed world has been vaccinated, they ply everyone with propaganda about super colds to suppress the paranoia and testing, institute testing standards to reduce or eliminate false positives, and then claim success due to widespread vaccination as the case counts "drop".
     

    buckwacker

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    I also note he's not commented on my two replies to him on one of the other COVID threads...



    It's to the point where he's not worth the time to debate. My ignore list is growing daily with people who are not coming at this in a level headed, factual manner.

    I can deal with people who are bringing up cogent arguments. I even "put up" with people who occasionally post rumors and wild theories.

    Some people seem to be agenda driven to the point of being disingenuous and/or hateful in their desire to cut other members down to size.

    To them I say "Good day sir, I said GOOD DAY SIR."
    I think in his case it's quixotic.
     

    phylodog

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    I just cannot fathom why the early reports would leave out such an interesting detail as Colin Powell having blood cancer. I'm 10000% sure it had nothing to do with Covid killing him though. I'm sure it was Covid, I mean, it has to be right? No one ever died from blood cancer before Covid came around and started turning it fatal.
     

    Keith_Indy

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    I just cannot fathom why the early reports would leave out such an interesting detail as Colin Powell having blood cancer. I'm 10000% sure it had nothing to do with Covid killing him though. I'm sure it was Covid, I mean, it has to be right? No one ever died from blood cancer before Covid came around and started turning it fatal.

    Because they pushed the pre-written obit out faster than they could find out what all was involved (as usual.)

    PUBLISH FIRST, update later, maybe, on page 56...

    I'm also sure that people who have COVID and died of accidents, ought not to be covered as dying of COVID, and yet we've seen cases of that.
     

    phylodog

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    Because they pushed the pre-written obit out faster than they could find out what all was involved (as usual.)

    PUBLISH FIRST, update later, maybe, on page 56...

    I'm also sure that people who have COVID and died of accidents, ought not to be covered as dying of COVID, and yet we've seen cases of that.
    You're giving more credit to the media than I'm willing to. I would struggle to believe that this wasn't intentional, just another attempt to stoke the fear.
     

    Keith_Indy

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    You're giving more credit to the media than I'm willing to. I would struggle to believe that this wasn't intentional, just another attempt to stoke the fear.

    Taking this CNN article as an example:


    First archived at 12:01:18 on 10/18

    Colin Powell, the first Black US secretary of state whose leadership in several Republican administrations helped shape American foreign policy in the last years of the 20th century and the early years of the 21st, has died from complications from Covid-19, his family said on Facebook. He was 84.

    Now several pages long, with full biographical history.

    So, like a lot of articles these days, they put up a short place holder and then update it as the days go by.

    And please note, my defending corporate media on this one particular article should not be taken as a wholesale defense of our corrupt media.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Sounds deadly, glad they're still with us. Touch and go for a bit.

    Like I said, tilting at windmills. We'll have to give you a new nickname: Don.
    Ok, fair enough. I face an uphill fight (argument) on INGO. I agree.

    However, someone needs to point out that taking dewormer meds (horse or human) is an unproven way to combat a virus, whether voluntarily or by mandate as in the jail in Arkansas..

    The reaction to the vaccine is completely political and opposition to science should not be politically based.

    Think we can all agree that the government has made terrible mistakes in handling the pandemic and it's reliance on force over education and persuasion will nullify its attempts to stamp out Covid.

    The history of pandemics shows that we have been here before and people, through fatigue, mistrust, if not downright anger, will reject reason and science and glom on to magic and nonsense. During Covid it is the magical nonsense of deworming medications.

    It is a mistake to turn mistrust and anger, however righteous, into a rejection of science just because it comes from sources outside an echo chamber.
     

    Drewski

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    And don't forget bleach.

    There was that well documented magical nonsense order to, verbatim, "take bleach." That was spelled out just as clearly as the one to "take horse dewormer," in those words too. (detailed citations here and here)

    The history of science shows that we have been here before; here of course being a place where people can question the suppositions and speculation of theories and generally unproven hypotheses in any pursuit of truth.

    It is a mistake to turn fear and need for comfort into little more than blind acceptance just because the man on TV said so.
     

    HoughMade

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    I mean....we regularly give the horse dewormer (just got its fall dose) and as far as I can tell, it hasn't had Covid.....so there's that.

    Humor....just humor, guys.

    Anyhoo, this whole Ivermectin or other as yet unapproved meds controversy has caused a lot of angst, but to anyone who has dealt as an insider with the healthcare system, this is simply nothing new. It is only in the news because of how Covid pervades everything these days and has taken on a political overlay.

    What I mean by this is that for the past 23 years, representing around 10 hospital systems over time and dozens upon dozens of physicians and other healthcare providers, you see some physicians prescribing treatment based upon their own thoughts and experience, some who will never recommend anything that is not explicitly found in the published practice guidelines and hospitals, now (this was not the case years ago) being held liable for the treatment decisions of physicians and being very nervous about treatments that have not been thoroughly studies and that have peer-reviewed results behind them.

    The "new" thing, which isn't really new and well predates Covid is "evidence-based medicine". The idea is that any treatment that is attempted should have published support in recognized journals. If there is not that, then healthcare institutions are very loathe to allow such treatments within their walls, or systems. Doctors still have the right to prescribe medications "off-label", that is, for something it was not approved for and that is not illegal. It does, however, open the doctor (and whoever else he works with and for) up to liability if the treatment doesn't work or causes harm.

    I say all that to say this- everything I said above was going on before Covid, but the treatments at issue dealt with individuals or small groups and had no politics attached. Covid really hasn't changed the dynamic of how healthcare institutions make the decision of what treatments they will allow in their systems. It has just highlighted the issue because of how many people are dealing with this and the vast upset the pandemic, and response, has caused to our lives.
     

    buckwacker

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    Ok, fair enough. I face an uphill fight (argument) on INGO. I agree.

    However, someone needs to point out that taking dewormer meds (horse or human) is an unproven way to combat a virus, whether voluntarily or by mandate as in the jail in Arkansas..

    The reaction to the vaccine is completely political and opposition to science should not be politically based.

    Think we can all agree that the government has made terrible mistakes in handling the pandemic and it's reliance on force over education and persuasion will nullify its attempts to stamp out Covid.

    The history of pandemics shows that we have been here before and people, through fatigue, mistrust, if not downright anger, will reject reason and science and glom on to magic and nonsense. During Covid it is the magical nonsense of deworming medications.

    It is a mistake to turn mistrust and anger, however righteous, into a rejection of science just because it comes from sources outside an echo chamber.
    Well I still don't know why you're making the argument here, since you've admitted you know no one on INGO advocating using vetinary grade ivermectin from tractor supply. It's kind of like arguing with adults that Santa isn't real. People begin to wonder about your grip on reality. Hence my comment about tilting at windmills and the new nickname.

    Everything has become political, even "science". Science, just like journalism, is dead, devoured by the woke left's ravenous appetite to destroy anything associated with truth and freedom. Scientists and doctors were afraid to study or advocate for certain things because they were terrified of being associated with Trump. They put all our eggs in the vaccine basket as people were dying, and there was a concerted effort to suppress any sort medical intervention for people who were actively struggling with covid because certain people advocated for intervention. They refuse to acknowledge the superior protection that prior infection provides so they can try to force everyone to get the jab. They change metrics to bolster the current narrative being spun, covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc, etc. This isn't science, it's propaganda, and we should be intelligent enough to see through it. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.
     

    Keith_Indy

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    I guess, according to @Kirk Freeman we should just fall lockstep into whatever "scientists" say.


    Imagine that there is a new scientific theory that warns of an impending crisis, and points to a way out.

    This theory quickly draws support from leading scientists, politicians and celebrities around the world. Research is funded by distinguished philanthropies, and carried out at prestigious universities. The crisis is reported frequently in the media. The science is taught in college and high school classrooms.

    I don’t mean global warming. I’m talking about another theory, which rose to prominence a century ago.
    Its supporters included Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Winston Churchill. It was approved by Supreme Court justices Oliver Wendell Holmes and Louis Brandeis, who ruled in its favor. The famous names who supported it included Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone; activist Margaret Sanger; botanist Luther Burbank; Leland Stanford, founder of Stanford University; the novelist H. G. Wells; the playwright George Bernard Shaw; and hundreds of others. Nobel Prize winners gave support. Research was backed by the Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations. The Cold Springs Harbor Institute was built to carry out this research, but important work was also done at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and Johns Hopkins. Legislation to address the crisis was passed in states from New York to California.

    These efforts had the support of the National Academy of Sciences, the American Medical Association, and the National Research Council. It was said that if Jesus were alive, he would have supported this effort.

    All in all, the research, legislation and molding of public opinion surrounding the theory went on for almost half a century. Those who opposed the theory were shouted down and called reactionary, blind to reality, or just plain ignorant. But in hindsight, what is surprising is that so few people objected.


    Today, we know that this famous theory that gained so much support was actually pseudoscience. The crisis it claimed was nonexistent. And the actions taken in the name of theory were morally and criminally wrong. Ultimately, they led to the deaths of millions of people.
    The theory was eugenics, and its history is so dreadful — and, to those who were caught up in it, so embarrassing — that it is now rarely discussed. But it is a story that should be well know to every citizen, so that its horrors are not repeated.


    You going to line up for whatever mandates comes from this "scientific" effort...

     

    BugI02

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    I apologize for any inference you weren’t making, but that’s the only way I can make sense of the claims. The graph you posted is just under two months of time. You’re asking me to believe that it’s dropped that dramatically based on a “minor reduction in viral loads” attributed to a medication that nobody has presented any actual evidence of working as you’re suggesting, in order to accomplish what you’re saying it’s accomplishing.
    You are asking us to believe ... what, exactly? Do you attribute the sharp drop in new cases to vaccines or masking? Since there is no evidence of such efficacy available from other countries besides Japan, it would seem that using YOUR standards we should conclude they don't work either (as many of us have)

    While it is certainly possible that the abrupt drop in case rates coinciding with the recommendation to use Ivermectin in treatment is a coincidence, do you have a theory of what else might have caused the most recent wave to behave so differently? Show your work
     
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