Vaccine coercion/bribery

foszoe

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Like I’ve said before, my gut has gotten me this far and I trust it one hell of a lot more than anyone at this point.

Good luck to you as well and I mean that sincerely.
And this is a sincere question.

When you say you rely on your gut does that mean you have used no research at all in deciding against getting vaccinated?
 

phylodog

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And this is a sincere question.

When you say you rely on your gut does that mean you have used no research at all in deciding against getting vaccinated?
It means that there is and has been far too much surrounding this entire situation for me to feel comfortable believing much of anything being claimed by anyone.

I’ve never been convinced that I or my family has been at serious risk so I have not spent weeks pouring over the various (and conflicting) studies, reports and “science”.

No one has yet explained to me why, since the vaccination does not prevent someone from transmitting the virus, that it should matter to anyone whether anyone else gets it. I’d love for someone to make it make sense but it doesn’t. I cannot look past that and simply concede that “they” have my best interests at heart.
 

foszoe

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It means that there is and has been far too much surrounding this entire situation for me to feel comfortable believing much of anything being claimed by anyone.

I’ve never been convinced that I or my family has been at serious risk so I have not spent weeks pouring over the various (and conflicting) studies, reports and “science”.

No one has yet explained to me why, since the vaccination does not prevent someone from transmitting the virus, that it should matter to anyone whether anyone else gets it. I’d love for someone to make it make sense but it doesn’t. I cannot look past that and simply concede that “they” have my best interests at heart.
That standard seems wierd to me, not that is wrong, but I don't know anyone that got the shot so they wouldn't transmit the virus, those I know got it to keep themselves from getting sick or reduce the effects if they did get it.

I personally don't care if someone gets it or not.

I do see that as a propaganda reason to get it.
 

ditcherman

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It means that there is and has been far too much surrounding this entire situation for me to feel comfortable believing much of anything being claimed by anyone.

I’ve never been convinced that I or my family has been at serious risk so I have not spent weeks pouring over the various (and conflicting) studies, reports and “science”.

No one has yet explained to me why, since the vaccination does not prevent someone from transmitting the virus, that it should matter to anyone whether anyone else gets it. I’d love for someone to make it make sense but it doesn’t. I cannot look past that and simply concede that “they” have my best interests at heart.
QFT, can’t like this enough.
 

Lex Concord

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Maybe we should stop assigning everyone to a “side.” Some of us fall somewhere in the middle. A lot of the mandates and pressure don’t make sense, but it doesn’t negate the possible value of the vaccine or the potential danger of the virus. It’s entirely valid to say it appears the vaccine reduces the rates of illness but it isn’t effective enough to justify forcing everyone to get it. It seems people are more focused on proving why they’re right and not so much weighing the evidence objectively.
While that is contrary to general human behavior, in this case, I think you may be right.
 

Ark

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And this is a sincere question.

When you say you rely on your gut does that mean you have used no research at all in deciding against getting vaccinated?
Nazi scientists produced plenty of research justifying Nazi policies. I'm really not all that swayed by pharma flunkies and state agents churning out content to support a pharma product and state policies.

It's also not really valid to point to "the research" when you look at how much research and how many qualified researchers have been censored or run out of their jobs for conducting research that produces findings which conflict with the narrative.

If your burn all your competitors stores to the ground, that doesn't make the junk in your store better, it just makes you the only store.
 

foszoe

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That sure seems to be the reason people like myself are being called selfish and ostracized from society if we don’t get the vaccine.
Yeah, but I don't think that's the majority of those vaccinated. I think that's government and the MSM.
 

actaeon277

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Pres. Biden was coughing up a storm in his last interview.
Did VP Harris decide to sneak a few covid people near him?
Not something a secret service pistol would be good at stopping.
 

foszoe

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Nazi scientists produced plenty of research justifying Nazi policies. I'm really not all that swayed by pharma flunkies and state agents churning out content to support a pharma product and state policies.

It's also not really valid to point to "the research" when you look at how much research and how many qualified researchers have been censored or run out of their jobs for conducting research that produces findings which conflict with the narrative.

If your burn all your competitors stores to the ground, that doesn't make the junk in your store better, it just makes you the only store.
I haven't pointed to any research, only been interpreting studies posted by Phylodog and Bugzilla.
 

Timjoebillybob

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Amazing how much one little, seemingly insignificant word can change the entire landscape of a nation.

I'm willing to bet a month's pay that there have been nowhere near that many people who have died of Covid. There may have been that many who died with covid.

Funny thing those little words can be.
For the over 80 yr old deaths, I'm guessing quite a few of them died from covid. As in it was the straw that broke the camels back, or it sped it up. As a totally unrelated and not entirely accurate example:):, take a guy who's been shot 8 times and is slowly bleeding out, he'll live for at least a while longer without treatment and possibly a good bit longer with. Now a 9th shot comes along to his noggin and hits his off switch. For purposes of cause of death it was the 9th shot that did it.

On the flip side of that, I'm going to guess again that quite a few of the deaths that were actually caused by the vax are the same. A while back I looked through a bunch of the reports on VAERS for deaths, most by a large margin were elderly, in nursing homes, usually with at least one but frequently multiple various other conditions. The vax just pushed them over the edge.
So a group of 10 people are gathered 6 are gung ho pro-vax that constantly regurgitate the narrative, they believe there are no other answers, the other 4 just want to discuss and evaluate the information looking for answers that the others do not believe in. The four are not in agreement on ANYTHING except they are looking for answers.
Except I don't think that is what we have here. I think it's closer to 2-3 are gung ho pro-vax, 2-3 are gung ho anti vax, and maybe 4 who just want to discuss and evaluate. But those on both extremes help those in the middle by their wildly divergent views by bringing in a wide variety of info.
And libeling doctors, scientists, and others because they are censored and must publish where they can get their work out...
And there are those who discount anything coming from any source smelling of govt/msm. Which there is good cause to distrust those sources I'll grant you. But just because the info comes from them doesn't mean it should be automatically and immediately discounted. Unless of course it agrees with their viewpoint.

On the flip side of that the type of websites that I think you are referring to also have good cause to distrust. And it's not libeling the Drs, scientists, and others by pointing out the exaggerations/falsehoods they have made, pointing out that their field of study/degree has nothing or little to do with what they are talking about, or even calling into question the why of what they are professing as in money, fame, attention, just being an ass, etc. And yes that applies to all sides.
My questions are very specific, in a plus/minus/neutral column for getting vaccinated, what column does it belong in and why?

What behavioral change if any does it make in your life?

Based on this study ALONE, I would put it in the neutral column, but if I got Covid I would move it to the plus side ...like carrying a spare mag.

Not looking for how wrong my answer is , I want to know yours.
My answer will be close to specific as I can coinciding with how much I feel like typing them. It belongs in the +/-/neutral columns, all of them. Based on a variety of factors. 60+(maybe 50+) especially with multiple other comorbidities, I'd say getting the vax would be a +. Under 30 healthy no comorbidities, I'd figure it more a -. Somewhere in between more neutral, with pehaps weighted towards a =/- depending. Along with any adverse effects from other vaccines, severity of them or lack of any adverse effects. Either of those may effect the balance as well.

Behavioral changes, it would vary according to the factors I listed above and quite possibly more as the knowledge base increases.
If they cannot predict how the virus will affect any food individual who gets infected, how can they claim to determine how effective or ineffective the vaccine is?

As an example…my daughter had Covid and zero symptoms. Had she been vaccinated you can bet TPTB would have claimed her to be a vaccination success story which is intellectually dishonest at best. My wife had Covid and only minor symptoms, same situation in that had she been vaccinated the claim would be that her symptoms would have been worse without it and the vaccine kept her out of the hospital.
That's one thing I have been wondering about, is to what degree genetics effect this. I understand some studies have shown greater resistance to people with certain blood type(s). I'm wondering what other factors may effect it. If all 4 of my brothers and sisters had it and were severely ill, I'd probably be running out to get the vax. If the opposite and they all had minor cases, not so much.

And that’s the problem. If the vaccine actually worked, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. The fact people still get and spread the vaccine shows it doesn’t work. So now it’s a matter of how harsh symptoms are. That’s the case, as you have experienced, regardless of vaccination status. I still don’t see the reason for the vaccine?
The vaccine from what I understand does work, just not 100%. And that % is decreasing depending on variant.
Vaccinated people still become infected from Covid. Vaccinated people that are infected still spread the virus. That’s not debatable. Your issue must be with the shows it doesn’t work part. Well. It does.
That is true of every vaccine, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the vax. There is no vax that is 100% to my knowledge.
The entire point of a vaccine is to prevent infection and the spread of a virus. It doesn’t do that. I keep hearing this “don’t worry about the long term side effects of the vaccine because the long term effects of Covid are still unknown”. So if you’re vaccinated AND get infected still, now you have long term side effects from both to worry about.
Yes it does do that, just not 100%. And I do agree with you on the second part, but as I stated above those risks should be weighed against others. If I was an obese, diabetic, balding, 80 yr old with high blood pressure and halitosis I might just be running to get the vax, or I might just say heck with it and say shoot me now and put me out of my misery...
 

Alpo

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that would be arsenic
Cyanide sometimes is described as having a “bitter almond” smell, but it does not always give off an odor, and not everyone can detect this odor. Cyanide is also known by the military designations AC (for hydrogen cyanide) and CK (for cyanogen chloride).
Some forms of arsenic are quite toxic; others are less so. Most arsenic compounds are undetectable to the senses, since they have no smell or taste. But when arsenic is heated – by bright sunlight or in a laboratory experiment – it passes directly from its solid state to a gas and gives off a distinctive garlic odor.
 

wtburnette

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Who is navel gazing? Feel free to post another study. One that shows a placebo has statistally similar results ad a vaccine would seem to support you claim

You kept going on about the one report. I'm done worrying about and hashing out results of one report. Actually, I'm done worrying about any at this point. If something came out and showed me an actual valid point for me to take the jab right now, I would suspect the report and the source. Just the way it is. The government and MSM have so clouded this issue that I probably wouldn't accept the truth of the matter if I was beat over the head with it. I lay that solely at the feet of this administration and their propaganda arm. Had they been up front with people from the beginning, things would be very different, but they screwed things up from the start. It's been pretty obvious since at least mid-2020 that there is some sort of agenda being followed and it isn't one that benefits the public in any way. That, in itself, keeps me from wanting to do anything I'm being told by "the authorities".

At this point, the COVID vax is synonymous with the flu vax, except it hasn't been as thoroughly tested. I never saw a reason to take the flu vax and never did until I worked for IUH. They force all employees to take it, even those who aren't patient facing. When I get old enough that a case of the flu could kill me (70's or so), then I would worry about it. I feel the same way about the COVID vax. Plus, that would give 16+ years for more testing to be done, so it's a win-win for me.
 

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