US rifles not suited to warfare in Afghan hills

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  • Anonym

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   0
    Jun 2, 2010
    134
    18
    Orange County
    Here's my :twocents: on this. It's been a while since I shot competitively, but I've got lots of experience with the M14 and the M16A2.

    When I was enlisted in the 90's, you qualified out to 500 meters with the A2 that had a 1:12 twist. When we would shoot competitions, we pushed that back to 600 yards, and they would still shoot accurately at that range, but you had a greater advantage if you could shoot a heavier bullet out of a 1:9 twist or faster. Shooting the heavier bullet out of the 1:12 seemed to still be a crap-shoot. A 20" or greater barrel in at least a 1:9 twist with the correct loads can be extremely accurate and effective killing machines at least out to 600 yards.

    The M14 we would shoot very accurately out to 800 meters. It was heavy and long, but it wasn't nearly as picky about how clean it was. The same round could be shot out of a bolt-action rifle extremely accurately out past 1,000 yards, and it still had plenty of knock-down power at those long ranges.

    I knew of a few guys that would plug their gas tubes on the AR to see how far they could shoot, and it would get them out to 800 yards or so, but at that range, the bullet could not maintain enough energy to push through the canvas backing on the target and the depression of the bullet in the paper target indicated that it would be a severe "keyhole" if it would penetrate.

    Now I'm not sure what rate of twist the A4 with the shorter barrel has, but I'd have to guess that they increased the twist rate to make up for the shorter barrel. Regardless of the twist rate, the effective range of the A4 must be handicapped considerably when comparing it to it's full-sized counterpart.

    Kind of like trying to find the "universal camo", I personally think the US Military is selling themselves short by limiting them to a "universal gun" or even "universal ammo". The A4 would be my weapon of choice of what's currently available for urban warfare and CQB, hands down. Now if we were to go back into an area like Nam where terrain dictated that you wouldn't be engaging a target beyond 500 meters, forget the stubbie and give me an A2. Now that we're in an area such as Afghanistan where longer distances are common and we're fighting against those who out-caliber and out-range us, then bring back the M14 or something along the lines of the AR-10. Yes, it would require additional training of our troops to familiarize them with multiple weapons, but they are tools of the trade, and each tool has a specific purpose and should be used as such. If it means protecting our soldiers and bringing more of them home on their feet, why would anyone hesitate?! :patriot:

    Anonym
     

    Rob377

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Dec 30, 2008
    4,611
    48
    DT
    found a neat calculator, finally. This question was bugging me the last few days.

    M855 @ 2900 muzzle velocity out of a 14.5 M4. (MV from Colt's military website)

    range Drop velocity (fps) energy (ft-lbs)
    500 -43.0 1683 390
    550 -59.6 1584 345
    600 -79.6 1490 306
    650 -103.6 1403 271
    700 -132.0 1322 241


    M855 @ 3110 muzzle velocity out of a 20" M16A4 (MV from Colt's military website)

    500 -36.0 1833 463
    550 -50.7 1728 411
    600 -67.6 1627 364
    650 -87.9 1531 323
    700 -111.9 1441 286


    I thought the MV difference would be bigger, actually.

    for comparison's sake, past 550 yards, the M4 w/ M855 is putting out the same energy as the relatively weak American Eagle 9mm ammo out of a handgun, with smaller hole to boot.

    While the 20" A4 is a bit better, neither would inspire a whole lot of confidence at those ranges.
     

    cop car

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jan 7, 2009
    626
    18
    Southside
    there isnt anything wrong with the 5.56 round, its an excellent round. so good that the russians copied it. it tore the afghan rebels up, way more than their older ak47s.

    the stupid thing is that they are giving everyone 14.5 in m4s when they should be having full length 20 in barrels. i know if i was out there, i would WAY rather have an A2 and 500 rounds of ammo than an M14 and 200 rounds of ammo.. around the same weights. try hiking up pikes peak holding an M14, and holding a A2, see which you like more then. also, everyone in the squad isnt going to just randomly fire into the hills when they are fired on. long range specialist are going to hunt and kill the other snipers. you have to find compromises sometimes and you always have to give something up.
     
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