UHAul theif tries to take police gun and ends up unalive at McDonald's

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  • Ark

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    If you're going to do this, use a locking sheath. Every weapon on your belt is another one you have to protect from a grab attempt and officers have been stabbed with their own blade as well as shot with their own gun. When I was a field sergeant some of the young guys would do the center line knife thing without thinking that part through.

    Highly highly recommend Craig Douglas' ECQC for weapon retention training. Head and shoulders above anything I've been shown anywhere else, including the Academy.
    ECQC is very very high on my class wish list.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Question for LEO's & others more knowledgable than me;

    How should an armed citizen engage in this scenario?

    In general:

    Identify yourself as willing to help and ASK if the officer wants your help.

    This accomplishes a few things. Most importantly it establishes who you are there to aid and are not a new combatant entering the fray against the officer. It may also give you some legal protection if you are acting as an agent of the officer, think of it as "Good Samaritan" -esque.

    To peel someone off someone, I've generally kicked/stomped the back of the knee, broken their posture, and head drug them backwards off the other person.
     

    Route 45

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    Is a stolen vehicle not a felony stop anymore? Lots of fail in this video, the officer is lucky to be alive.
     

    freekforge

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    If you're going to do this, use a locking sheath. Every weapon on your belt is another one you have to protect from a grab attempt and officers have been stabbed with their own blade as well as shot with their own gun. When I was a field sergeant some of the young guys would do the center line knife thing without thinking that part through.

    Highly highly recommend Craig Douglas' ECQC for weapon retention training. Head and shoulders above anything I've been shown anywhere else, including the Academy.
    I was one of those young guys that wore a knife on centerline until I actually trained and got bruised up from the kabar tdi trainer that was ripped off my belt and jabbed into my belly. I had the slit pockets on my uniform shirt cut open and kept my tdi on my vest. It wasnt the best set up but I could reach it with either hand. Do you have a knife setup you'd recommend?

    I can't remember but I think the only weapon retention I was initially taught was push down and twist the gun and do shin rakes.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I was one of those young guys that wore a knife on centerline until I actually trained and got bruised up from the kabar tdi trainer that was ripped off my belt and jabbed into my belly. I had the slit pockets on my uniform shirt cut open and kept my tdi on my vest. It wasnt the best set up but I could reach it with either hand. Do you have a knife setup you'd recommend?

    I can't remember but I think the only weapon retention I was initially taught was push down and twist the gun and do shin rakes.

    I wore a neck knife under my uniform. It's not ideal, either, since it can shift around a bit but I was comfortable with my ability to make space and access it if needed.

    I don't feel qualified to recommend any particular open carry knife set up. If you want, I can ask Craig if there's anything he recommends. I'd be much more comfortable with his expertise in this arena.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Wow. That video gets your heart racing. My only beef was the backstop.

    They had no idea the officer was in there with him. I wouldn't have made that assumption given the radio traffic. Plus responding officers just saw his SUV peel out and crash. Its feasible the officer was behind a gas pump, dead from a GSW, and he panicked trying to escape.

    In general:

    Identify yourself as willing to help and ASK if the officer wants your help.

    This accomplishes a few things. Most importantly it establishes who you are there to aid and are not a new combatant entering the fray against the officer. It may also give you some legal protection if you are acting as an agent of the officer, think of it as "Good Samaritan" -esque.

    To peel someone off someone, I've generally kicked/stomped the back of the knee, broken their posture, and head drug them backwards off the other person.
    THIS. Especially that last bit. make the knees go a direction they shouldnt with a well placed stomp. Sideways, especially He cant fight if he cant stand. And if you try to peel someone off from behind, for additional leverage and pain compliance, as you pull back on the chin, drive something hard and sharp like a knuckle, kubotan, maybe your car key held like a knife into the lower back on/by the spine. That intense pain can possibly help them relax involuntarily and not resist your neck pull. And if its in the right place and sharp enough, he just might lead you in an effort to get away from the pain. Arching your back to try to move forward away from the pain is a natural reaction.

    Another remote possibility if you are carrying pepper spray and they are locked and immobile like this. Im drawing a blank what John Murphy calls it. The booger wipe? Anyway Carefully spray some on your hand and give the perp a good rub across the eyes, digging in a bit if you can for an additional eye gouge to help work the spray in. That gives him the full effect while minimizing contact of those in the scrum. Then afterward, grab a glove from your med kit and glove that hand until you can wash.

    Though that begs another question. In a severe life or death struggle where the officer is screaming "get off my gun" so you know its not just a run of the mill "im not goin to jail" wrasslin match and anyone within sight could get shot if he gets control. Would replacing the blows with potentially deadly edged weapon hits if that is all you have be appropriate? There are also several spots to slice that cuts tendons and makes the limb about as useless as Joe Biden.
     

    Ark

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    .

    Though that begs another question. In a severe life or death struggle where the officer is screaming "get off my gun" so you know its not just a run of the mill "im not goin to jail" wrasslin match and anyone within sight could get shot if he gets control. Would replacing the blows with potentially deadly edged weapon hits if that is all you have be appropriate? There are also several spots to slice that cuts tendons and makes the limb about as useless as Joe Biden.
    Seems like completely justified deadly force to me in that situation, as a contact shot from a second officer to get the guy off the gun would have been. It's a totally unambiguous fight over a gun; he ain't trying to see whether the officer is still carrying .40.

    Off the top of my head I cannot recall any recent instances of officers using edged weapons. Legally, deadly force is deadly force, but it would not surprise me to see review boards and DAs get queasy over hacking someone open with a karambit even when shooting them would have been totally acceptable. It won't be a popular thing to do.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Seems like completely justified deadly force to me in that situation, as a contact shot from a second officer to get the guy off the gun would have been. It's a totally unambiguous fight over a gun; he ain't trying to see whether the officer is still carrying .40.

    Off the top of my head I cannot recall any recent instances of officers using edged weapons. Legally, deadly force is deadly force, but it would not surprise me to see review boards and DAs get queasy over hacking someone open with a karambit even when shooting them would have been totally acceptable. It won't be a popular thing to do.
    I was speaking as a bystander without a gun.
     

    jedi

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    I was speaking as a bystander without a gun.
    Depends where it occurs.
    In FL the sherif would praise you on TV for helping his officer.

    In Chicago the DA would be charging you for having a knife, attempted murder of a civilian, obstruction of an ongoing police investigation.

    (Knifes are illegal to carry in Chicago unless they are under 2" in the blade)
     

    STEEL CORE

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    Ever been there or done that?
    (not you blue) but it was game on from the get go, and yes we watching the video, are allowed to critique.
    But who hasn’t trained in weapons retention that can say “they never got my gun”, even the ol Safariland 3, can be beaten by someone who knows how to do it. Surprise!
    You’re fighting for your life. Thank god he had back up, and no you don’t want to get shot by your own kind.
    Yep my heart was racing watching it, thinking the officer should have done this, or I would have done that…
    Could I too have gotten to my TBI k bar, G-27 on chest plate, forget an ankle holster during this one.
    Best part of the video, was deceased.
    He won’t be moving anything anywhere.
     
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