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    BugI02

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    Nor did you... a no context picture asserting no observers were allowed.[But you recognized where and what it was about, didn't you? So was a citation needed? It is an example of egregious behavior from public servants]

    Were any observers allowed in? Were 134 observers allowed in?

    What proof do you have that your assertion is true?

    What level of proof would be acceptable to prove it false, if that is the case?
    From your quote:

    "Some began to bang hard on the inside windows; others began to film workers handling the ballots, a violation of state law. To protect the workers, TCF officials covered some of the windows with cardboard—a decision Thomas said he was not consulted on, but absolutely agreed with."

    What, exactly, were the workers being 'protected' from, if not from being observed?And why would they need to be protected from that, do you think? What official on the scene is on the record as saying there were 'far more than 134 observers' on site, why doesn't Mr Alberta quote anyone?

    I, for one, do not see the point in giving our enemies (yes, you read correctly, they are corrupting the electoral process, so they aren't our friends or somehow innocent bystanders) so much benefit of the doubt - especially while insisting on higher standards of proof and greater purity of essence from conservatives
     

    LeftyGunner

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    Weird right?

    Like when the "machine errors" constantly and consistently change votes to the other party.
    What's REALLY WEIRD is that when that happens it's ALWAYS Republican votes getting changed to a vote for demoncrats.
    I guess the machines just revert to alphabetical order since D is before R or something.

    Also REALLY WEIRD there’s no evidence for your claims beyond 4Chan‘s memes.

    ”They” couldn’t keep the Dobbs decision secret for a few months, but “they” can keep everyone needed for a national electoral conspiracy quiet for years?

    That doesn’t hold up to even a superficial examination, unless…do you have so e kind of evidence thst backs up your meme?
     

    BugI02

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    A1S4C1 of the Constitution, commonly called the “Elections Clause” reads as follows…in its entirety:

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators. [Note that that doesn't mention choosing a president]

    So…yeah, it doesn’t go into great detail.

    I am no lawyer, but it looks like “following the constitution“ is a fairly ambiguous task in this example…as long as the states are happy with the results of their elections, so is the Constitution.

    It doesn’t look like election fraud was high on the founder’s minds, for better or for worse, and now we have to figure out how to deal with the fallout. [Well, they WERE on record as believing that our form of government was only fit for a moral people, so I think believing such would not want to cheat or defraud their countrymen was kind of bound up in that. Like many perversions and perturbations of law today, I just don't think they thought we would sink so low - or that if we did how elections were conducted would be the least of our problems]
     

    printcraft

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    Also REALLY WEIRD there’s no evidence for your claims beyond 4Chan‘s memes.

    ”They” couldn’t keep the Dobbs decision secret for a few months, but “they” can keep everyone needed for a national electoral conspiracy quiet for years?

    That doesn’t hold up to even a superficial examination, unless…do you have so e kind of evidence thst backs up your meme?

    ********, go read the news.
    **** it, don't waste your time. You are a good little soldier.
     

    foszoe

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    If state A is following the constitution on votes and states B is not is there not a disenfranchisement of state A’s voters, a specific harm?
    How so?

    States B residents could say so but States A residents had their vote correctly counted which is their constitutional right.
     

    LeftyGunner

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    [Note that that doesn't mention choosing a president]

    You are correct, that is covered in Article 2, and there is a bit more detail…though the clarity is still left a bit wanting:

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows

    “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

    The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.”

    I agree fully with another of your points: I don’t think the founding fathers could imagine an electorate like ours in modern times...the independent sprit now just isn't as prevalent as it was among those men.
     

    Leadeye

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    .
    the challenge for the GOP is that rural areas are where they have large advantages over dems. That's hard to ballot harvest.

    Maybe the GOP shouldn't concede the urban areas. Get ground teams in there and get every vote they can. It starts with fielding local candidates that can appeal there.

    Crime was a good point in the last election in the cities, but it just didn't seem to have risen to the level where people abandoned the wishes of the local machines. I don't know at what condition things have to get for average city citizens before they decide it's too much. Chicago clearly is still below that threshold.
     

    Leadeye

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    View attachment 240738

    Yass, queen. If observers were allowed, should they not be allowed to observe? And what exactly are the remedies or punishments encoded in such laws to prevent just such behavior, which is my point. Election law is toothless, feel-good fiction

    An example of how a machine works at it's lower level, this guy probably picked up some sort of gratuity from the local machine.
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
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    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey
    ...

    ”They” couldn’t keep the Dobbs decision secret for a few months, but “they” can keep everyone needed for a national electoral conspiracy quiet for years?

    ...

    Except it's not necessarily a national conspiracy; it doesn't have to be. All it takes is a few key states, as we've all seen. And within each key state, we have key cities that dominate, and where TPTB pretty much run it like they want to, without any national ties needed. There seems to be an abundance of questionable-activity video available. Can it all be innocuous?

    .
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Gtown-ish
    I will grant you the courtesy of assuming that the highlighted use is the generalized 'you' and not the specific. You (specific) and I both know that I have never said Trump should be 'installed' as anything. Even if Pence had had the balls to try the stratagem of challenging the certification, it would simply have thrown the issue to the courts in a way they could not have refused to entertain. To so vigorously overstate your case is to reveal the weakness of it

    That's correct.

    It did not take balls to turn Trump down. He did the right thing. If it had gone to court I doubt it would have gone anywhere close to Trump's way.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    From your quote:

    "Some began to bang hard on the inside windows; others began to film workers handling the ballots, a violation of state law. To protect the workers, TCF officials covered some of the windows with cardboard—a decision Thomas said he was not consulted on, but absolutely agreed with."

    What, exactly, were the workers being 'protected' from, if not from being observed?And why would they need to be protected from that, do you think?

    A violation of state law... 'nuff said.

    What official on the scene is on the record as saying there were 'far more than 134 observers' on site, why doesn't Mr Alberta quote anyone?

    No idea but it's easily findable? :dunno:

    Here at 3:30 in the video, 226 Republicans and 266 Democrats and 75 non-partisans. Only supposed to be 134 of each, so only the non-partisans will be allowed in until the Ds and Rs are each down to 134.


    I, for one, do not see the point in giving our enemies (yes, you read correctly, they are corrupting the electoral process, so they aren't our friends or somehow innocent bystanders) so much benefit of the doubt - especially while insisting on higher standards of proof and greater purity of essence from conservatives
    Ummm... this is a reverse of the typical situation where Dems make false assertions and innuendo, or best case extreme exaggeration, with little to no proof in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

    The difference is that in this case it's Trump spouting b******t!

    Here's his latest:

    "The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to 'terminate' the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is 'MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,' as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. ONLY FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!"
    "Irrefutably proven" my ***.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Gtown-ish
    #1, with the caveat of only seeking to do so in enough states that it forms a comfortable majority of EC votes. I think most are in agreement that in person voting with positive ID, and paper ballots rather than machine generated counts, are the most secure system. It would still be up to a candidate to win enough of the states that have free and fair elections. the states where people like their chains will have to come to their senses on their own. I thought lockdown would have done it, now I'm not sure what will

    Maybe start flooding California with immigrants fleeing communism who recognize the warning signs
    So let me get this straight. Your plan is to get red states that currently have some form of mail-in ballots to change their ways to be what you want?

    Dude, I hate to break it to you but there's a **** ton of red states with no-excuse absentee voting. You better get to your lobbying plan to get them all to change their voting laws. I think only 8 or 9 states have all mail voting.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Nor did you... a no context picture asserting no observers were allowed.

    Were any observers allowed in? Were 134 observers allowed in?

    What proof do you have that your assertion is true?

    What level of proof would be acceptable to prove it false, if that is the case?
    If past performance is indicative of future results I'd say zero. There is no convincing evidence possible.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    "Water pipe is broken. Everybody out." Excuse us while we unload ballots from underneath tables and repeatedly run through the machine.
    As I recall there is evidence that they sent everyone home. Did they unload ballots from under the table? Did they repeatedly run through the machine? Show me the kraken.
     
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