Trigger work on K frame?

[Snapdragon]

Background: My 87-year-old mom wants a nightstand gun. I am wary of a semi-auto because of the number of steps involved and because I am sure she will limp-wrist it. A revolver seems to be a better fit, but she is barely able to fire any of my K-frames. (Two M10, a M15, and two M19). I am considering trying to lighten the trigger on one of them. I am mechanically inclined and can follow a YouTube video. Is this something I should try, and if so, which spring or kit would be best?

 

[bcannon]

Wish I could help, I would probably PM BossHoss directly with that question. He is our resident S&W gunsmithing guru. Good luck with getting your mom set up.

 

[drillsgt]

Edit: Probably should be in gunsmithing forum. Will try to get moved.

Background: My 87-year-old mom wants a nightstand gun. I am wary of a semi-auto because of the number of steps involved and because I am sure she will limp-wrist it. A revolver seems to be a better fit, but she is barely able to fire any of my K-frames. (Two M10, a M15, and two M19). I am considering trying to lighten the trigger on one of them. I am mechanically inclined and can follow a YouTube video. Is this something I should try, and if so, which spring or kit would be best?

If you just want to try a spring kit without any other modifications then it's something anybody should be able to do. Remember don't try to pry off the side plate with a screwdriver or something or you can damage it. I just use a nylon hammer and give the frame by the grip a couple taps and it usually pops free. The toughest part is if you want to change the trigger return (rebound) spring (not recommended to go too light or it can actually slow down your DA shooting). I use this tool which makes life easier. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...rebound-slide-tool-sku080666000-774-2973.aspx

I've used Wilson brand kits before but there are others, Brownells currently has the Wilson but are out of other brands.

 

[Snapdragon]

If you just want to try a spring kit without any other modifications then it's something anybody should be able to do. Remember don't try to pry off the side plate with a screwdriver or something or you can damage it. I just use a nylon hammer and give the frame by the grip a couple taps and it usually pops free. The toughest part is if you want to change the trigger return (rebound) spring (not recommended to go too light or it can actually slow down your DA shooting). I use this tool which makes life easier. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...rebound-slide-tool-sku080666000-774-2973.aspx

I've used Wilson brand kits before but there are others, Brownells currently has the Wilson but are out of other brands.

Thanks for the recommendation on the tool.

I'm looking at both Wilson and Wolff spring kits.

Custom-Tune« Spring Kit | S&W K/L/N Frame Revolvers

shopwilsoncombat.com

Wolff Shooter's Spring Pack TYPE-2 Reduced Power Mainspring S&W K, L,

Wolff Shooter's Packs contain reliable springs which provide a great improvement in the overall trigger pull and hammer function. Installation requires...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[drillsgt]

Thanks for the recommendation on the tool.

I'm looking at both Wilson and Wolff spring kits.

Custom-Tune« Spring Kit | S&W K/L/N Frame Revolvers

shopwilsoncombat.com

Wolff Shooter's Spring Pack TYPE-2 Reduced Power Mainspring S&W K, L,

Wolff Shooter's Packs contain reliable springs which provide a great improvement in the overall trigger pull and hammer function. Installation requires...

www.midwayusa.com

I'm a big fan of Wolff springs but I've used both.

 

[Bosshoss]

Do you have a trigger pull gauge?
If you do then check your guns and see what the weight is.
Take the grips off and back off the strain screw a couple turns and check again.
Keep going until you get it down to around 8 pounds and then see if see can pull the DA. If she can pull 8 pounds then a spring kit will probably work.
To get the pull lower than that and keep it reliable will take some more work beyond springs.
Springs in no way replace an actual trigger job but will reduce the pull weight.
Lots of tricks inside a S&W to reduce pull weight and not reduce mainspring tension especially on the K frames.

As to what springs are best I have no clue. I use stock S&W mainsprings(modified) and Wollf rebound springs in all my customers guns for range use/defense or competition.
I do not like Wollf ribbed mainsprings.

If you decide she can handle the gun and want a spring kit I have one a customer gave me that I will never use and I can send it to you if you want, no charge.


EDIT: If you put in a spring kit make sure the revolver doesn't have any endshake as the reduced force/hammer speed will be absorbed by by having to push the cylinder full of ammo forward before setting off the primer. Causes misfires.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Do you have a trigger pull gauge?
If you do then check your guns and see what the weight is.
Take the grips off and back off the strain screw a couple turns and check again.
Keep going until you get it down to around 8 pounds and then see if see can pull the DA. If she can pull 8 pounds then a spring kit will probably work.
To get the pull lower than that and keep it reliable will take some more work beyond springs.
Springs in no way replace an actual trigger job but will reduce the pull weight.
Lots of tricks inside a S&W to reduce pull weight and not reduce mainspring tension especially on the K frames.

As to what springs are best I have no clue. I use stock S&W mainsprings(modified) and Wollf rebound springs in all my customers guns for range use/defense or competition.
I do not like Wollf ribbed mainsprings.

If you decide she can handle the gun and want a spring kit I have one a customer gave me that I will never use and I can send it to you if you want, no charge.


EDIT: If you put in a spring kit make sure the revolver doesn't have any endshake as the reduced force/hammer speed will be absorbed by by having to push the cylinder full of ammo forward before setting off the primer. Causes misfires.

That's a solid offer right there.
I have heard that the ribbed mainsprings may need a longer strain screw, on some brands it lands in the rib and isn't long enough to apply proper pressure.

 

[Snapdragon]

Do you have a trigger pull gauge?
If you do then check your guns and see what the weight is.
Take the grips off and back off the strain screw a couple turns and check again.
Keep going until you get it down to around 8 pounds and then see if see can pull the DA. If she can pull 8 pounds then a spring kit will probably work.
To get the pull lower than that and keep it reliable will take some more work beyond springs.
Springs in no way replace an actual trigger job but will reduce the pull weight.
Lots of tricks inside a S&W to reduce pull weight and not reduce mainspring tension especially on the K frames.

As to what springs are best I have no clue. I use stock S&W mainsprings(modified) and Wollf rebound springs in all my customers guns for range use/defense or competition.
I do not like Wollf ribbed mainsprings.

If you decide she can handle the gun and want a spring kit I have one a customer gave me that I will never use and I can send it to you if you want, no charge.


EDIT: If you put in a spring kit make sure the revolver doesn't have any endshake as the reduced force/hammer speed will be absorbed by by having to push the cylinder full of ammo forward before setting off the primer. Causes misfires.

Appreciate the offer very much. I don't have a trigger pull gauge. Since you are so kindly offering the spring kit for free, I may invest in a gauge. I will order it and get back to you when it arrives and I have played with it a bit. Are the manual gauges as good as the digital?

 

[Bosshoss]

Let me know and I can send the kit. PM me your address and I will just send it if you decide to not use it just pass it on to someone else.
My digital gauge was within ounces of the manual gauge and probably within the margin of error of the user and their technique.
You can vary the reading a fair amount by how you hold the gauge and how you pull it.
I make sure to pull straight back on the gauge, if you pull at a downward angle it will reduce the reading.
If everything is working properly a S&W revolvers trigger pull will be heaviest at the very start when you are trying to get everything moving. It shouldn't get heavier as you pull through unless something is wrong and /or out of balance.
Be careful at the end of the pull and don't bottom out the trigger giving you a heavier reading.

I prefer the digital gauge just because my customers can easily see the reading.

 

[Snapdragon]

Let me know and I can send the kit. PM me your address and I will just send it if you decide to not use it just pass it on to someone else.
My digital gauge was within ounces of the manual gauge and probably within the margin of error of the user and their technique.
You can vary the reading a fair amount by how you hold the gauge and how you pull it.
I make sure to pull straight back on the gauge, if you pull at a downward angle it will reduce the reading.
If everything is working properly a S&W revolvers trigger pull will be heaviest at the very start when you are trying to get everything moving. It shouldn't get heavier as you pull through unless something is wrong and /or out of balance.
Be careful at the end of the pull and don't bottom out the trigger giving you a heavier reading.

I prefer the digital gauge just because my customers can easily see the reading.

If I can get by on half the price without sacrificing too much, I'll try the old school gauge. I will PM you my address for the kit. Thanks so much again.

 

[gmcttr]

If I can get by on half the price without sacrificing too much, I'll try the old school gauge. I will PM you my address for the kit. Thanks so much again.

I have both types of gauges and they read very close to one another. The "old school" will serve you well and save dollars.

 

[Jim5528]

Do you have a trigger pull gauge?
If you do then check your guns and see what the weight is.
Take the grips off and back off the strain screw a couple turns and check again.
Keep going until you get it down to around 8 pounds and then see if see can pull the DA. If she can pull 8 pounds then a spring kit will probably work.
To get the pull lower than that and keep it reliable will take some more work beyond springs.
Springs in no way replace an actual trigger job but will reduce the pull weight.
Lots of tricks inside a S&W to reduce pull weight and not reduce mainspring tension especially on the K frames.

As to what springs are best I have no clue. I use stock S&W mainsprings(modified) and Wollf rebound springs in all my customers guns for range use/defense or competition.
I do not like Wollf ribbed mainsprings.

If you decide she can handle the gun and want a spring kit I have one a customer gave me that I will never use and I can send it to you if you want, no charge.


EDIT: If you put in a spring kit make sure the revolver doesn't have any endshake as the reduced force/hammer speed will be absorbed by by having to push the cylinder full of ammo forward before setting off the primer. Causes misfires.

What is the average cost of a trigger job for a S&W 617?

 

[Bosshoss]

What is the average cost of a trigger job for a S&W 617?

A basic trigger job on a S&W is $90
A competition trigger job on a 617 is $225 and that includes reaming the chambers.
Most 617's need the chambers reamed. As they get dirty the empties are very hard to eject.

 

[Jim5528]

Thanks for the info.
I ordered a wolf springs kit if that does not help the trigger pull, I may need a trigger job.

 

[gregkl]

Thanks for the info.
I ordered a wolf springs kit if that does not help the trigger pull, I may need a trigger job.

FWIW, spring kits don't replace smoothing up an action. I have done spring changes and have or had trigger jobs done. Most of the time when I do or have BossHoss do a trigger job, I leave the factory springs in. Maybe put a 13 or 14 lb rebound spring in it.

I leave the other springs factory.

Replacing springs without smoothing the action may provide a lower trigger pull weight, but it will still be gritty, herky, jerky.

I once did a Taurus 85CH myself. Smoothed everything up, used factory springs and reduced trigger pull weight by 3 lbs. I did this because my wife could not cycle the gun in it's factory form. After I was done, she could.

 

[augdog]

Jerry Miculek has out a awesome dvd called Trigger Job. Well worth the money. I always watched it before I took the side plate off my k frame revolvers.My got broken and I probably will buy again.

 

[Leadeye]

I've noticed that the trigger pulls on my HE Smiths are all smoother and lighter than my K frame guns. Not sure if that's a difference in the action or just the age of the springs.

 

[MrSmitty]

The K frame is amazingly easy to smooth up the trigger, don't know about springs, but smoothing the action is pretty easy, did that on an old Model 15 years ago, I used an old gun cleaning manual for disassembly, and used a good stone for the action.....

 

[Bosshoss]

FWIW, spring kits don't replace smoothing up an action. I have done spring changes and have or had trigger jobs done. Most of the time when I do or have BossHoss do a trigger job, I leave the factory springs in. Maybe put a 13 or 14 lb rebound spring in it.

I leave the other springs factory.

Replacing springs without smoothing the action may provide a lower trigger pull weight, but it will still be gritty, herky, jerky.

I once did a Taurus 85CH myself. Smoothed everything up, used factory springs and reduced trigger pull weight by 3 lbs. I did this because my wife could not cycle the gun in it's factory form. After I was done, she could.

This^^^^^
In fact putting lighter springs in the gun can make the action feel rougher and less smooth.
The heavier trigger pull actually hides a lot of problems.

 

[Bosshoss]

The K frame is amazingly easy to smooth up the trigger, don't know about springs, but smoothing the action is pretty easy, did that on an old Model 15 years ago, I used an old gun cleaning manual for disassembly, and used a good stone for the action.....

Glad it worked for you but IMO if you need a manual for disassembly you should NOT be anywhere near the internals with a stone.

I have seen lots of "trigger jobs" come thru the shop and they had a couple of surfaces stoned and that is fine but it is nowhere near a actual trigger job.
There are several surfaces that I stone(25 to 30 but I never really counted) and every part comes out of the gun and some get filed and some stoned and on the higher end trigger jobs I actually reprofile several of the parts.

Many get by with just springs and are happy and some get by with a partial trigger job.
But a really good trigger job is a whole different animal and will spoil you.
Not everyone needs a really good trigger job but not everyone needs a S&W when a Taurus, or Charter Arms will do the same thing right?(actually Taurus and Charter Arms are not bad FOR THE MONEY)