Training....What training?!?

[Glockster]

I am a lifelong resident of Indiana (Marion County). At the ripe old age of 54, I decided it was time to buy my first handgun. Long story short, on Jan. 2, I purchased a Glock 17. Being the responsible citizen that I am, I recognize that I need training on this weapon. At the time of purchase, my gun dealer did recommend an all day, $110, NRA recognized pistol course taught once per month about 30 miles from my house at an outdoor facility. Not exactly convenient. especially in January. I also discovered an indoor range on the east side offering unaccredited instruction for $50/hr. So, I start calling the authorities because surely they will be involved in ensuring that their armed citizenry is a trained armed citizenry. Wrongo! I tried the IMPD, the ISP and the DNR. The DNR does offer a "hunting" class which has little to do with pistols. IMPD-nothing. ISP-nothing. After leaving a message at the Indiana State Police Superintendant's office, I did get a very nice call back from a Colonel who loved my idea of a for-profit training course but stated that their organization could not charge the public for anything without legislative approval! In short, my exhaustive search found that there is no formal pistol training available in the Indianapolis area from any police agency. Should I be shocked by this? The day I bought my gun, the gun store was a mob scene: no where to park and 3 and 4 deep at every counter. You would have thought that it was the last day in history to buy a gun. I went to the city-county building to buy a permit. The line was 15 deep. I was again surprised that all I had to do to get a lifetime carry permit was fork over $125 and allow my fingerprinting. There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever that a permitted gun carrier demonstrate even a minimal understanding and capability with their weapon. Based on my experience at the gun store and the city-co bldg, there is a huge wave of new gun owners intending to carry them in public with no training. I'm as big a fan of the 2nd Amendment as anyone but shouldn't there be some demonstration of proficiency required with a lethal weapon before the state coughs up a lifetime license to carry it amongst the innocents?

 

[ATM]

Training:

Good idea - yes!
Recommended - yes!
Requirement - NO!

Slippery slope which could be abused to deprive many (most, all) based on whatever whims some anti-gun politician decides that particular year.

I think the responsibility to encourage and inform these new gun owners and license holders about the benefits and responsibility of training are we the gun owners.

 

[Joe Williams]

Cops have better things to do than train swarms of civilians. Training is easily available, you listed two different sources yourself. Betcha a check of the NRA site would list others.

Training is an extremely good idea. Firearms ownership requires personal responsibility, and seeking out and acquiring such training is part of that. However, there is no more need (or right) for mandated training of civilians than there is for journalists to receive government training and licenses to print their stories, at least in my humble opinion.

 

[Glockster]

I will say this: thank God for the internet. I have learned more about my weapon and safe practices by visiting the web over the last week than anyone could gain in a day's worth of training. I am very sensitive to any hurdle placed in front of gun ownership. But I will tell you, this purchase experience convinces me that there are very many rookies out there who could care less about proper training.

As you see from where I found assistance and where I found a vacuum, it is apparently the enthusiasts who care most about training and the authorities who could care less.

 

[ATM]

Impact those you can and send them all here to INGO.

 

[USMC_0311]

Good Thread to start Glockster, sure to provoke some emotions. We had simialr thread going about testing. Let me be the cannon fodder for you, before these guys get too rough. I don't like the idea of an requirement for training to get LTCH but I do think you may be on to something with a government sponsered classes. Off duty cops are always looking for extra money why not? I would like to see more affordable training available to new shooters and that might be a way to help. I have searched for training and finding good training thats affordable is a little tough. Locations and time away can really put a damper on a working family man.

 

[Glockster]

Thanks USMC. I told the Colonel at the ISP that while his troopers are out there issuing $150 speeding tickets that have no value, they could be charging willing taxpayers a similar amount to learn something. We pay for all the cops training i.e., their expertise is bought by the public. Why shouldn't we benefit from their knowledge that we paid for?

 

[USMC_0311]

Ther is the CMP (civilian marksmanship program). They offer EIC matches at camp perry for 35.00. 2 day class covers safety and marksmanship. They provide the guns and ammo. M9 and M16 each have there own class. I have done the M16 and well worth 35 bucks. Training and coaching by Military instructors. I am going to M9 class this summer. CMP Home

 

[Scutter01]

Boone County Sheriff's department offers outstanding gun training and is available to non-LEOs.

Training: VITALLY important
State-mandated training: Can open, worms EVERYWHERE. Who sets the standard? What's to stop them from setting it so high that no-one can pass? and so on...

 

[Shay]

I am a lifelong resident of Indiana (Marion County). At the ripe old age of 54, I decided it was time to buy my first handgun. Long story short, on Jan. 2, I purchased a Glock 17. Being the responsible citizen that I am, I recognize that I need training on this weapon. At the time of purchase, my gun dealer did recommend an all day, $110, NRA recognized pistol course taught once per month about 30 miles from my house at an outdoor facility. Not exactly convenient. especially in January. I also discovered an indoor range on the east side offering unaccredited instruction for $50/hr. So, I start calling the authorities because surely they will be involved in ensuring that their armed citizenry is a trained armed citizenry. Wrongo! I tried the IMPD, the ISP and the DNR. The DNR does offer a "hunting" class which has little to do with pistols. IMPD-nothing. ISP-nothing. After leaving a message at the Indiana State Police Superintendant's office, I did get a very nice call back from a Colonel who loved my idea of a for-profit training course but stated that their organization could not charge the public for anything without legislative approval! In short, my exhaustive search found that there is no formal pistol training available in the Indianapolis area from any police agency. Should I be shocked by this? The day I bought my gun, the gun store was a mob scene: no where to park and 3 and 4 deep at every counter. You would have thought that it was the last day in history to buy a gun. I went to the city-county building to buy a permit. The line was 15 deep. I was again surprised that all I had to do to get a lifetime carry permit was fork over $125 and allow my fingerprinting. There is absolutely no requirement whatsoever that a permitted gun carrier demonstrate even a minimal understanding and capability with their weapon. Based on my experience at the gun store and the city-co bldg, there is a huge wave of new gun owners intending to carry them in public with no training. I'm as big a fan of the 2nd Amendment as anyone but shouldn't there be some demonstration of proficiency required with a lethal weapon before the state coughs up a lifetime license to carry it amongst the innocents?

You're absolutely right. There should be a minimum of 80 hours of training required to own a gun. Anything less is irresponsible.

And there should be a written test too.

And you should have a 3 month waiting period. That's just to make sure you're not going to run out and do anything rash.

And some sort of mandatory defense liability insurance just in case you do something illegal, immoral or unpopular.

Now we're getting somewhere!

 

[dburkhead]

I'm pretty much convinced that the folk who would benefit form a 1-2 day "training course" are mostly the same folk who would get training either through "self study," finding a friend who knows guns (my approach--beyond what I learned in the military many moons ago), or through a formal class.

The folk who won't get training unless it's mandatory are mostly the same folk for whom the training would be "in one ear and out the other"

Thus, making it mandatory, unless you make it long and difficult enough that it's really just a gun restriction by another name, really gets you nothing.

 

[VERT]

You're absolutely right. There should be a minimum of 80 hours of training required to own a gun. Anything less is irresponsible.

And there should be a written test too.

And you should have a 3 month waiting period. That's just to make sure you're not going to run out and do anything rash.

And some sort of mandatory defense liability insurance just in case you do something illegal, immoral or unpopular.

Now we're getting somewhere!

I have to agree not only with the training, but also liability insurance. In theory this is good, unfortunately like several have already mentioned who would set the standards. Now lets say we do receive training and insurance and have to pass a test in much the same way as getting a drivers licence and registering a car...... Wouldn't it be great if our pistol permits were recognized in every other state like our drivers license?

 

[Phil502]

Here's a link to the NRA courses in Indiana are these the ones you know about? I went to the basic pistol and thought it was good, I went in Illinois though because it was closer then Indianapolis for me. It was good very basic though but you still learn stuff and it puts you more at ease handling a firearm.


Find A Local NRA Safety Course

 

[ATM]

I believe Shay was being a tad facetious in his post.

 

[esrice]

VERT, knowing what I know of Mr. VanVlymen, his above post was dripping with sarcasm.

Any of those things he mentioned are rediculous, and show how "mandated training" can trickle down into craziness!

 

[Glockster]

I'm really torn on this whole issue. I agree with Scutter that requiring something could really open a can of worms but Shay makes sense too. After all, we require testing to get a driver's license for four years. I wonder if the FF's would have addressed automobiles in the Constitution if they had existed during their time. Would their be a clause stating that the "rights of the people to own and drive automobiles shall not be infringed?" Right now, my biggest peeve is that someone like myself trying to do the right thing and get trained has so few options.

Given the void here, maybe enthusiasts should take the lead to implement reasonable requirements before the anti-gun crowd goes too far. Does anyone know if the LTCH in IN is under threat to be modified or eliminated?

 

[Glockster]

Here's a link to the NRA courses in Indiana are these the ones you know about? I went to the basic pistol and thought it was good, I went in Illinois though because it was closer then Indianapolis for me. It was good very basic though but you still learn stuff and it puts you more at ease handling a firearm.


Find A Local NRA Safety Course

Yes, that $110 course is the one I'm looking at. I spoke to the instructor yesterday and he says that the 10-hour NRA course certification can be used to obtain licenses from other states (FL for example) that are more widely accepted by other states than IN.

 

[Jack Ryan]

, I did get a very nice call back from a Colonel who loved my idea of a for-profit training course but stated that their organization could not charge the public for anything without legislative approval!

I'm as big a fan of the 2nd Amendment as anyone but shouldn't there be some demonstration of proficiency required with a lethal weapon before the state coughs up a lifetime license to carry it amongst the innocents?

Due to the way governments work, it makes no sense for any one area to do anything for a profit. Any thing the sell or do for a fee, the money goes back to the state as income, profit or no profit. If he is really interested, suggest he run it BYOB, Bring Your Own Bullets, and have an obvious area available for DONATIONS. Donations to a specifice area agency stay right there with that agency.

On the other thing, NO.

 

[Shay]

I'm really torn on this whole issue. I agree with Scutter that requiring something could really open a can of worms but Shay makes sense too. After all, we require testing to get a driver's license for four years. I wonder if the FF's would have addressed automobiles in the Constitution if they had existed during their time. Would their be a clause stating that the "rights of the people to own and drive automobiles shall not be infringed?" Right now, my biggest peeve is that someone like myself trying to do the right thing and get trained has so few options.

Given the void here, maybe enthusiasts should take the lead to implement reasonable requirements before the anti-gun crowd goes too far. Does anyone know if the LTCH in IN is under threat to be modified or eliminated?

There are lots of training options. Some are much better than others. Within a 6 hour drive of Indy there are several schools that conduct classes.

Visit the Training forum and see some of the offerings that are coming to our state.

 

[Shay]

Yes, I'm a professional instructor, but for the record, I do not believe that training should be mandatory to own or carry a gun (or for any other Constitutional right).

I encourage all gun owners to take it upon themselves to seek out quality training, but anything government mandated would be terrible training and simply used as a barrier to certain classes of people owning or carrying guns.