Training to Reholster: Look at holster ?

[Coach]

It's generally under panic conditions, not admin handling or at the range. One fellow was being shot at, so he was in something of a hurry. He pulled, got on the trigger, and shot himself in the thigh on the way to bringing the gun up to the window to shoot at his opponent. I can't speak to inbreeding, but drugs or alcohol weren't a factor.

No holster carry and grabbing the gun improperly is another fairly common cause, but I'm assuming folks here are smart enough to use a holster. For those who use a holster, it *is* rare but happens. Injuries when drawing while seated or prone from being knocked down is more common to see than while standing up. Probably just because they are sweeping more of themselves on the draw stroke. A round that would have hit the dirt had they been standing hits their foot or thigh instead.

If it happens when no holster is involved then it is not the same thing being discussed here is it?

I am not talking about administrative handling.

This makes me think that one problem is that there are so few places for gun owners to practice a draw stroke live fire. That it is difficult for them to perform well in a stressful situation.

I would submit Tex as a case of inbreeding.

 

[Coach]

IMHO, dusty88 done exactly what should have been done. She is fortunate to have an understanding of safe firearms handling. Sadly it sounds as if the "class" continued on, teaching the exact WRONG things to new shooters.

Good for her for posting her experience here to expose that all "instructors" are not good instructors. There are a lot of folks out there calling themselves "firearms instructors," with a very poor or no understanding of safe firearms handling.

Students, please DO YOUR homework on your instructors and pass along this information to others to do the same.

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Ohio gun store owner accidentally killed by student during firearm-safety class

Gun safety instructor accidentally shoots student - CNN.com

Firearms instructor accidentally shoots California pastor during gun safety class

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How to Survive your CCW Class Without Being Shot

[video=youtube;N48bV2gKVQM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N48bV2gKVQM[/video]

I would add that many "firearms Instructors" cannot shoot either. Being able to shoot well would seem to be incumbent on someone claiming the label but it is usually not.

 

[dusty88]

I would add that many "firearms Instructors" cannot shoot either. Being able to shoot well would seem to be incumbent on someone claiming the label but it is usually not.

For this instructor, skill wasn't the problem. If there is a gunfight I would want to be with them (or maybe just hiding behind them).

As far as instructors in general: From what I have seen the requirements to be an NRA instructor are fairly low. However, I don't have a problem with that. They put in the time and also put in the time to teach class. If they are teaching BASICS and safe gun handling, then having plenty of NRA instructors is a good thing.

Once we get off the basic level classes training really diverges and a person has to both do their homework and participate in a lot of classes. This wasn't quite a "beginner" class I went to; it was mentioned for those who already conceal carry. But I think it was still largely composed of people with little holster training or practice. I think in this forum that makes them (including me) a relative newbie. I've taken a few classes but am far from proficient.

It was, for me, a real contrast with the approach I've had from other instructors. Ken Campbell, for example, spent a couple of sobering minutes emphasizing why your dry fire practice is in a very prepared and controlled environment and why you don't use that time to forget about what you are pointing the gun at. This included examples of people who have put holes in walls in a hotel near Gunsite and one guy who killed his best friend.
Sunday, we were asked to trust the cleared gun because someone else cleared it.

I think it's good that instruction diverges and that so many alternatives are available. However, diverging from the 4 rules should be done with extreme forethought, planning, and benefit carefully considered. I may someday take a force-on-force or Simunitions or some other class where there are real-looking guns pointed at me. Sunday was not one of those days. I was being swept by real guns with no advance knowledge of this, for no reason, and with no solid preparation to consider it. I should be clear and say that even if these guns had been loaded, the chance of someone being shot were relatively small. But any upside of taking this risk was zero IMO.

If we don't take responsibility then we add to the number of people telling us that "it's more dangerous to have a gun because you are more likely to hurt yourself or a family member."

And thank you for everyone's opinion on the reholstering issue. I can reholster without looking when I have my OWB and the right clothing. But I almost never actually wear the OWB; one IWB holster and a tucked-in shirt is pretty close but I still prefer to look. I may practice "not looking" with an unloaded gun, in the same procedure I use to dry-fire practice. But for the foreseeable future I need to glance at my holster and clothing when I can.

When I took the low-light class at Riley, I felt the gun not going into place easily and used my flashlight to check the clothing and finish the job. I think that was the right choice.

 

[KLB]

I would add that many "firearms Instructors" cannot shoot either. Being able to shoot well would seem to be incumbent on someone claiming the label but it is usually not.

Cannot or cannot do it well?

Knowledge and ability are do very different things. An instructor can be very knowledgeable while having no ability and be a very good instructor. Some people can pick up a gun and shoot sub-moa groups the first time they shoot and know nothing about how to handle guns. Those people would not be good instructors.

 

[Coach]

Cannot or cannot do it well?

Knowledge and ability are do very different things. An instructor can be very knowledgeable while having no ability and be a very good instructor. Some people can pick up a gun and shoot sub-moa groups the first time they shoot and know nothing about how to handle guns. Those people would not be good instructors.

I meant that they cannot shoot well as stated in my post. I don't think someone can be a good instructor if they cannot shoot well. Shooting well may be a spectrum. But the instructor ought to be able to do everything they are teaching clients to do.

 

[sporter]

I would add that many "firearms Instructors" cannot shoot either. Being able to shoot well would seem to be incumbent on someone claiming the label but it is usually not.

"Yeah, but I went to XYZ school and have all these certificates!!!"

 

[rhino]

When I took the low-light class at Riley, I felt the gun not going into place easily and used my flashlight to check the clothing and finish the job. I think that was the right choice.

Agreed!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If it happens when no holster is involved then it is not the same thing being discussed here is it?

I am not talking about administrative handling.

This makes me think that one problem is that there are so few places for gun owners to practice a draw stroke live fire. That it is difficult for them to perform well in a stressful situation.

I would submit Tex as a case of inbreeding.

I'm saying cause #1 is no holster. Of those that did wear a holster...then went into causes.