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    Pdub
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    Since I don't have an AR shotgun, would I look okay with with my 870 slung on one shoulder and an AR on the other? They would match in all black... I could wear a black ninja outfit with mask and all if you think that would be more tacticool looking.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mitchell
    Since I don't have an AR shotgun, would I look okay with with my 870 slung on one shoulder and an AR on the other? They would match in all black... I could wear a black ninja outfit with mask and all if you think that would be more tacticool looking.

    Only if you also had H&K's in drop leg holsters on both legs. :laugh:
     

    turnandshoot4

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    Jan 29, 2008
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    Clearly, he was just an average guy who carries. ​He wasn't trying to make a political statement down at Starbucks. No demonstration there.

    Rosa Parks wasn't making a political statement about rights either. Neither was Plessy. Fact is if you want to change the societal norm, you have to ruffle a few feathers. If you aren't willing to do so for 2A rights so be it. Furthermore, if you aren't willing to stand up for their legal right to do so, more power to you. Please continue to work against LEGAL gun owners.

    What everyone is ignoring is NO ONE WAS HARMED. All of the claims of "more guns, more death" was eliminated. These were the safest places around.

    They took exactly what was vilified into the heart of liberalism. They took political activism right to the people that are trying to take them away.

    The days of gun shows with "no cameras" so the entire public couldn't see what was going on should be over.

    Come out of the closet gun owners. It is ok. What you are doing is LEGAL. Be proud. Heck, have the courage of the gay community.
     

    BE Mike

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    Rosa Parks wasn't making a political statement about rights either. Neither was Plessy. Fact is if you want to change the societal norm, you have to ruffle a few feathers. If you aren't willing to do so for 2A rights so be it. Furthermore, if you aren't willing to stand up for their legal right to do so, more power to you. Please continue to work against LEGAL gun owners.

    What everyone is ignoring is NO ONE WAS HARMED. All of the claims of "more guns, more death" was eliminated. These were the safest places around.

    They took exactly what was vilified into the heart of liberalism. They took political activism right to the people that are trying to take them away.

    The days of gun shows with "no cameras" so the entire public couldn't see what was going on should be over.

    Come out of the closet gun owners. It is ok. What you are doing is LEGAL. Be proud. Heck, have the courage of the gay community.
    How's that working out for the Westboro Baptist Church or the "Occupy ________" movement. I still think you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
     

    BE Mike

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    I get your point, I do. I simply disagree with how likely concealed carry is to get the anti- or neutral (I don't even know what neutral means with regard to armed self-defense) crowd to suddenly become pro-gun. I also disagree with the notion that carrying, even open carrying, equates one to be a 'fanatic'. Some of the most calm, rational, level-headed, and reasonable people I've ever met in my life carry. Some OC, some CC. I think if the mere presence of a weapon is enough to mentally persuade someone who was formerly neutral into loathing or fearing firearms, then foremost, that person probably wasn't terribly 'neutral' in the first place. Secondly, irrational fear of weapons, hoplophobia, can only be countered through repeated encounters with them, with the understanding that the presence of the weapon itself is not what is dangerous, but rather, how and when and for what purpose its owner intends its usage. I have found that unfamiliarity is the driving force behind at least some of that fear.

    I agree that bringing people along to Appleseeds or to the range is the most effective method for attracting converts because it increases familiarity and dexterity and comfort with weapons, but I would also posit that simply being exposed to normal people doing normal everyday things while armed does much the same, if to a much lesser degree. Seeing that someone can walk around armed drinking coffee or buying groceries - especially with family - without magically turning into a deranged killer, does a lot to assure a lack of ill intent. But I'm sure we'll probably continue to disagree about the utility of open carry in public places as an effective method to persuade the 'neutrals'.
    I couldn't disagree more. I know of people who are neutral on the issue of guns. There are quite a few out there. There are also who have a prejudice against guns, who can be persuaded to our side. I don't think that the best method of teaching someone to swim is to throw that person into the deep end. Small steps work better. The entertainment industry and main stream news has presented guns as bad. People who have this media driven prejudice against guns can be won over, but it isn't likely that they can be won over by in-your-face tactics. No matter what, inappropriate displaying of firearms hurts our cause and will alienate people. It tipped the scales for Starbucks.
     

    greyhound47

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    This dovetails nicely with why CC er's and anti-oc'ers say what they do. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should make a mission of forcing others who may not agree to confront it. Just a thought. Flame away.
     

    HoughMade

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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Rosa Parks wasn't making a political statement about rights either. Neither was Plessy. Fact is if you want to change the societal norm, you have to ruffle a few feathers. If you aren't willing to do so for 2A rights so be it. Furthermore, if you aren't willing to stand up for their legal right to do so, more power to you. Please continue to work against LEGAL gun owners.

    All I've heard around here and elsewhere is that "Starbucks Appreciation Day" was not a demonstration or a political rally. Baloney (my PG stand in for BS)

    Step down off your high horse. Plenty of people work for gun rights without openly annoying a private business.

    Starbucks didn't want any part of this debate. It just wanted to sell coffee. But no, so called "activists", more likely people who live by the motto: "People look at me, therefore I am", pulled them in.

    Starbucks does not have the ability to restrict anyone's 2d Amendment rights. No private person or organization can. Rather, they can set the rules for their "house". Only the government can restrict 2d Amendment rights as the 2d Amendment is only directed to government.

    Starbucks is not the government.

    Go on thinking that you are some latter day civil rights do-gooder. If it makes you feel significant, have a ball.

    However, when pushing the boundary....give pushing the boundary against the government a try rather than pushing it against a private organization that was never the enemy.

    Go open carry at a school, court or Congress and make a real statement if you want to compare yourself to Rosa Parks.


    I know it's easier and there's no real consequence to open carrying rifles at a coffee joint....but is "no real consequence" your goal? I thought is was to claim your rights? Well, step up and openly protest THE LAW, or stop comparing yourself to people who actually risked something.

    Shades of the "Holy Grail": "I'm being oppressed, I'm being oppressed....come and see the violence inherent in the system."

    please.
     
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