The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

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  • smokingman

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    Funny the Biden administration doesn't care about these Indians and this water/land like they did where Keystone was concerned.
    The did shut down metal mining in Minnesota last year(would have been a new mine they still have the iron mine).
     

    jamil

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    When did you ever hear someone say I wish I had an electric car? I do not recall it.
    Well, not in those words, but I've heard people talking about wanting an EV. A coworker bought one a few years ago. He's not an environmentalist. He's not political. I don't even think he votes. He's just a geek who likes the tech. He got his just before the subsidies ended for Tesla. Then another guy bought one, and it looks to me like he just wanted one because the other guy got one. He got his after the federal tax break ended. They're pretty cool cars, if that's what you like. I'd rather have something with real ass buttons and knobs, but that's me.

    Folks hoped and dreamed of hydrogen powered vehicles, heck even water powered, and I’m sure others I am not thinking of but I just do not recall anyone pining for an electric car.
    Did anyone pine for toasters before people really started seeing viable toasters advertised? You don't know you want something until you see your neighbor or coworker or relative have one. Or see something advertised and just have to have it. There's a whole psychological industry around marketing research on how to get people to buy things they didn't know they wanted.

    That's part of what drives demand. New products is not driven by people pining for stuff. They're driven by someone who has an idea, takes some risks, brings it to market, and then hires con artists marketers to sell the idea.
    How reluctant do you think people were about the first internal combustion vehicles? They kinda acted like you are.

    Not that I think EV's are the thing that will make ICE obselete, but something will. And then, someday, whatever makes ICE obsolete will be made obsolete by some new technology. And your posterity will be right there whining about the new new-fangled thing.


    I suspect that was because they subconsciously knew the batteries were always dead when they needed to use the flashlight and the batteries went dead before the job was done. We certainly cannot know an alternate reality but those who gave attention to others can certainly can remember attitudes from thirty years ago, that I have confidence in.
    Electric cars have been around for longer than 30 years, but nothing more than fringe use until Tesla came along. No one before that seemed serious about making them work. I don't think they wanted to put the R&D into battery technology and charging. Musk was serious and he made something that could find a niche in people's use. Like I've said all along, EV's are not a replacement for ICE. Traveling in them isn't practical yet. Doing work with them isn't practical yet. But you can daily drive them, locally, and not miss a beat. Unless your power goes out. So that obviously restricts the people who might seriously think about getting one.
     

    jamil

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    Would hot EV’s like Tesla even exist without the intervention of TPTB? I seriously doubt it.
    That remains to be seen. Musk himself said he was near bankrupcy. So it's possible that without tax breaks enough people would not have bought them and he'd be SOL. But as I said before, we don't have that reality available to compare. But you're obviously free to doubt.
     

    jamil

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    The hydrogen thing always got me. So the byproduct is water vapor? So how does that affect things with that much water vapor released into the atmosphere? Slick moss growing in the streets or sidewalks? Humidity rising? I don't think there would be a net zero impact.
    That's an interesting thought. But I think in the existing hydrogen vehicles it's not vapor that is expelled. I think it was TFL that put out a video some time ago. It was a luxury car from Japan...maybe Lexus? I don't recall. Anyway I thought there was a reservoir to collect the water, and then you could empty it whenever you want.
     

    Ingomike

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    Did anyone pine for toasters before people really started seeing viable toasters advertised?
    The EV has been around near 150 years. It is not a new concept. Complete BS that masses of the people were clamoring for them. They predate the ICE, so they clearly are not a modern invention by any means. When I asked if people were hoping for them I meant before TPTB started in on the current track, maybe 30 years ago. They were not…
     

    Ingomike

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    That remains to be seen. Musk himself said he was near bankrupcy. So it's possible that without tax breaks enough people would not have bought them and he'd be SOL. But as I said before, we don't have that reality available to compare. But you're obviously free to doubt.
    And I do. He also benefited from TPTB pushing his cars for him, market capital likely would be far less if it was not for the fingers on the market scale. It is not just one thing, this is an international push from many directions…
     

    jamil

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    And I do. He also benefited from TPTB pushing his cars for him, market capital likely would be far less if it was not for the fingers on the market scale. It is not just one thing, this is an international push from many directions…

    The only point Tesla was in serious trouble was early on when Musk nearly went bankrupt. Pushing his cars for him? Well in the Biden administration, especially post pandemic, they're definitely pushing EV's hard. Musk is undoubtedly gaining from that as some of the people going electric are doing so for GW reasons, and the government pushing EV's is gonna drive some business his way. But, be clear that if they could exclude Musk, they would. The Biden administration excludes Tesla from just about everything it legally can because they're non-union.

    But again, I'm in agreement with you about TPTB pushing EV's. But I can separate that from the EV's themselves. The Biden administration is also using EPA power to make so expensive to comply with emission standards that more companies are going with alternatives like EV's. But that's not the fault of EV technology. But a lot of money is being dumped into R&D on EV's and other ICE alternatives that would not have been without the push. I'd rather alternative technologies be developed organically.
     
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    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mitchell
    That's an interesting thought. But I think in the existing hydrogen vehicles it's not vapor that is expelled. I think it was TFL that put out a video some time ago. It was a luxury car from Japan...maybe Lexus? I don't recall. Anyway I thought there was a reservoir to collect the water, and then you could empty it whenever you want.
    The problem with hydrogen is that most of it is already combined with some other atoms. To get enough to use as a fuel you have to use other fuel to separate the hydrogen out. That’s a problem.
     

    jamil

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    The problem with hydrogen is that most of it is already combined with some other atoms. To get enough to use as a fuel you have to use other fuel to separate the hydrogen out. That’s a problem.
    Yep. Hydrogen powered vehicles, if it's even possible to make it practical, will be a long way off. But someday...that is if the WEF doesn't get its way with their new world order, ICE will be made obsolete by some new technology.

    BTW, here's that TFL video I mentioned.

     

    JCSR

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    The problem with hydrogen is that most of it is already combined with some other atoms. To get enough to use as a fuel you have to use other fuel to separate the hydrogen out. That’s a problem.
    I was tech at a hydrogen generator for 6 years or so. Natural gas is injected with steam in the process. All this take a tremendous about of energy .
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I was tech at a hydrogen generator for 6 years or so. Natural gas is injected with steam in the process. All this take a tremendous about of energy .
    I bet. The trick is getting more BTUs worth of fuel out than you put into getting them. That’s why fossil fuels are so tough to beat.
     

    Percolater

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    The tech shows the real time energy use and costs based on my power source. Savings compared to avg gas price at the time of charge.
     

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    Percolater

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    The vehicle calculates it based on the power source .12 is the avg.
    19k miles give or take
    avg premium gas price
     

    actaeon277

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    The cost of the charger is not in that calculation, and it is significant.
    Not being pro or anti, but BOTH sides of the argument should include ALL contributions.
    AN ICE vehicle does not pay for the charger/pump.

    Now, stating that, I would also argue, that the cost of the pump will go down, as the car is used and the $ per kwh is averaged over a longer time.




    Similar to the septic pumps installed in my (and other) subdivisions.
    Regular users don't pay for the pumps in the system at the substations, the town does.
    The user does pay, through taxes, but then EVERYONE pays for them.
    With the septic pump, I got the fun of paying for the pump and installation.
    And when the pump went out, I got to pay for the new pump.
    And I still pay the tax for the city pumps in the regular septic systems the town has.
     
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